this post was submitted on 12 Oct 2023
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Thank goodness.
I'm reminded of a story I read a while back - not sure where - about how if you let a Nazi into your bar, you eventually end up running a Nazi bar. I think the same applies to online forums. You let Nazis overrun a forum, everyone else leaves, and eventually you might as well just be running Stormfront.
Original Twitter post
Wiktionary has a fairly relevant definition for "Nazi Bar":
It's always in the name of "free speech".
That's the one! Thank you for finding it.
God, I wish there was a shitty crustpunk bar near me... I think that the closest thing to one within 100 miles of me shut down during the pandemic. :(
I love crustpunk dumpster pussy.
Username checks out. You certainly have a way with words.
Isn't that also kind of what is happening to Twitter right now?
Yep. In welcoming back the Nazis, Elon made it clear he intended to make it a Nazi forum. Oh, he said a few things about "free speech zones" or something, but when you peel back the veneer of idealism, you just find a bunch of Nazis.
They love "free speech zones," because no one wants to share a forum with Nazis and leave when the Nazis take over.
Whenever someone makes a big deal about allowing "free speech," it always ends up meaning hate speech.
Freedom to speak is not freedom to be heard.
Semi-relevant:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZB2ftCl2Vk
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=-ZB2ftCl2Vk
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
You can value free speech without supporting that.
Indeed, and most places do.
I'd hope so, but I hardly see anyone mention free speech without painting it as being on the side of bigots and bringing up arguments against it.
Because bigots love to wield it as a weapon and use the term in bad faith.
You sure that's why? I can't help but feel like a lot of people are genuinely anti free speech now.
A stupid thought that I just had. An X is 4 bars from a swastika.
X is a sans serif swastika.
Mind blown
Although some people have a hard time figuring out where the bars go.
Or 4 bends. You're not the first one to realize.
Karl Popper's "paradox of tolerance"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
In my other (non-Lemmy) life, I've written extensively about the paradox of tolerance, and how recognizing it de-fangs the arguments of wanna-be totalitarians.
For people not in the know, Popper proposed that infinite, unrestricted "tolerance" is paradoxically self-destroying, because it necessarily means tolerating attempts to destroy tolerance.
The solution is simple and obvious in retrospect, but so many people have trouble finding it and worry about whether they're hypocrites or not for refusing to tolerate Nazis and the like. The solution is this:
Recognize the fact that you never promised to tolerate Nazis.
No one ever promised to tolerate everything without caveats or restrictions. Instead, we promised to tolerate each other, to respect one another's right to exist. In other words, tolerance is a peace treaty.
As soon as you realize that, it becomes obvious that you needn't tolerate Nazis, because they have broken the treaty. You are not bound by it when it comes to them. In fact, given the nature of people like that, they were never really signatories to the treaty in the first place, because they start from a basis of intending to destroy it.
Oh, how they hate it when people realize this and refuse to put up with Nazi bullshit or apologize for that refusal. Well, sorry, Nazi turd burglars, we never promised to put up with your shit in the first place, so y'all can fuck right off.
Tolerance and peace are both treaties. We agree to leave each other be and not take up arms in exchange for the other to do the same.
You have no obligation to be tolerant of someone who is intolerant or preaches intolerant ideology.
You have no obligation to be peaceful to belligerence and violence.
Lemmygrad isn't Nazi tho
These are not Nazis being blocked
The irony of liberals calling communists Nazis is not lost on me in this comment. It’s genuinely hilarious.
Red fascists: claim to be leftists, behave like Nazis. Leftists: "Fuck off, Nazis." Red fascists: :surprised pikachu:
They're not really communists. Hint: Russian trolls are getting paid.
Chinese ones, too.
Lmaoo I knew you’d take the bait.
I’m sorry for being confrontational, it’s funny but it doesn’t help anything. I hope you are safe, and never have to experience war or occupation. There’s a saying I like, “When the revolution comes, you won’t just get the wall, buddy. You’ll get four walls, a roof, clean clothes, good food, education, and quality healthcare because that’s what every human being alive deserves.” We may disagree on a lot, but in the end, my goal is the liberation of all peoples, not just people I get along with, so I genuinely wish you well and hope one day to have a better interaction.
Just like every communist revolution has led to a better life for all, including the millions purged. You're off your rocker if you think your revolution won't lead to just a wall for countless numbers of people.
Maybe actually examine the material conditions of the peoples in places who have had communist revolutions. It is indisputable that the vast majority of people in such societies had such significant increases in quality of life that it far surpasses anything a capitalist society has ever done.
China literally took one of the poorest, least educated, most class-stratified societies in the world, industrialized it, educated it, and became the number 2 super power in 60 years. Chinas life expectancy just surpassed the U.S.’s. Chinas minimum wage has gone up 500% in the last decade or two. In the Same time in the US, the minimum wage has remained the exact same. China has built more high speed rail in the last twenty years than the entire rest of the world combined across all of history. They’ve built more solar and wind farms than anyone else also.
Russian life expectancies pre-revolution was 32. 32 years. After the Soviets took over, that began increasing for decades, only lowering again during the worst of WWII fighting, and immediately going back up afterwards. After the collapse of the USSR, under the western policy of Shock Therapy(the reconstitution of capitalist economics), millions of people died and life expectancy plunged by 10 years.
Look up nutrition information on Soviet citizens as released by the FBI, where they cite that Soviet citizens ate as many calories as Americans, from healthier sources. Look up what percentage of the population was in the gulag system Vs what percentage of the population is in the American prison system.
It seems to be, that capitalism is great for the people at the top, but for those of us at the bottom, socialism is infinitely better. Ration lines to a rich man means he Can’t abuse his position for special privileges. Ration lines to the poor mean having food every day instead of when you can afford it. Most of the things we’ve been told about communism, at least the ones i have heard, are from the perspective of the rich who are upset they lost their place at the head of the table and had to live as equals with those they saw as inferior.
This whole thread is just a demonstration of "enlightened centrism". Someone above is even arguing that hating landlords makes you a fascist! Just chef's kiss.