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If I had meme skills I'd make a Simpsons "Don't make me tap the sign" macro, and the sign would have the cruel and unusual punishments clause on it.
Some people deserve it. Of course if it were legal, many who didn't would get it.
Though it being illegal doesn't stop the cops from doing it. Just look up all the news about people showing up at the ER instead of booking when arrested, the literal torture warehouse uncovered recently, and the general fascistic nature of US cops... Not even talking about Guantanamo or the military.
If you want the constitution to be adhered to, you already have work to do.
Well yeah, duh. But that doesn't mean we stop trying to do better. People are saying "do the right thing", and you're saying "people already fucked up though" like it's some sort of, I don't know, excuse to not care about doing the right thing this time. Maybe, just maybe, if we can prove even the highest level crooks go to jail, we can shake the idea that "In America that there's no point in doing anything because it's already shit.".
I'm not saying let the fucker free. Lock him up til he dies. Prison rations. Solitary confinement. But if we torture, and excuse it because THIS TIME WE'RE SURE, and "it must be alright because the bad guys also tortured", then we've only made a more torturous union.
Nah, you were saying don't torture via tap the sign reference. I was simply saying that problem already exists, and it sure as hell isn't toward cops. It's from cops.
I was basically pointing out that if you're against torture, you should really hate these fuckers.
Well okay, but nobody was saying cops should get a pass, or that we like cops. This thread isn't about cops.
Yes, I'm speaking in the sub-context of explaining what kinds of cruelty already exists. This context stems from the "tap the sign" reference which was used to speak against cruelty towards horrible people who ostensibly actually deserve it.
If you're against cruelty to people who ostensibly deserve it, cruelty to those who don't should be a much higher priority. Yes, it is in effect a what-about-ism, but perspective is critical to having solid moral axioms.
There's a difference in having perspective and bringing up last week's book at book club.
I am against cruelty. Full stop. I am against torture. I don't have to list every type of torture to say I'm against this one. You're right, though, it's whataboutism. You're not adding perspective that cops are bastards on this tiny little federated open source website. Everyone here already knows that. We're all some sort of non-mainstream political identity. Look, that guy over there is a anarcho-syndaclyst furry. All you're doing is muddying the waters over a very simple statement that torture is bad.
Regarding anyone "deserving torture" Frodo: 'It's a pity Bilbo didn't kill Gollum when he had the chance.' Gandalf: 'Pity? It's a pity that stayed Bilbo's hand. Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them, Frodo? Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. Even the very wise cannot see all ends. My heart tells me that Gollum has some part to play in it, for good or evil, before this is over. The pity of Bilbo may rule the fate of many
Wonderful words written not about the real world.
So you think torture is fun? Because it's not useful for gaining information. The only reason to do it is to make yourself feel better. Are you that sort of person? Gotta get your enemies into a position they can't defend themselves then you'll take your time causing pain? Your real world isn't worth preservation of you won't work towards a better one.
Nope. I just think some people deserve some of the pain they've inflicted on others. I believe some people are so evil they do not deserve sympathy.
I am both sorry and glad you have not seen enough of the real world to agree. Though you should probably open your eyes before it's too late.
The answer to the Paradox of Tolerance IS NOT absolute tolerance.
Saying "lock him away for ever, even kill him, but don't torture" isn't falling for the paradox of tolerance. It's saying that if we're willing to be just as evil then what's the point of fighting them? There has to be something that makes us different. And for me it's saying yes, stop crime, even kill if we have to. But torture doesn't reduce crime. Torture doesn't gain trustworthy intelligence information. There is no point in torture other than to take delight in pain. Anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong and anyone who agrees and desires to torture anyway is a monster.
I'm sorry that whatever you've seen of the world, you weren't strong enough to keep your humanity and kindness through it, and now would rather perpetuate pain than end it.