this post was submitted on 13 Jun 2023
674 points (99.9% liked)
196
16290 readers
2543 users here now
Be sure to follow the rule before you head out.
Rule: You must post before you leave.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Honest question - what's a tankie? I feel like I've seen them mentioned a ton on Lemmy but I'd never heard the term prior to a few days ago. From the image it looks like a maga/skinhead combo?
They're communists, but not your every day "people should hold the power" communists. More like "tianenmen never happened, and if it did it wasn't that bad" type
Which makes them no different from the western imperialists they hate so much.
exactly
Tankie was first used for that kind of communist supporter who kept singing Russia's praises/defending Russia even when Russia was sent 5000 tanks to crush a popular uprising in Czechoslovakia (the "Prague Spring") on August 20, 1968. Some people just couldn't accept that a communist country could do something bad, so defended the action.
Nowadays, it's used to refer to those that are strongly supportive of Russia, completely ignoring the awful things they do. Often these days there's a lot of anti American bent to it. Like, anything anti America and American "imperialism" must be good - even blatant and awful Russian Imperialism.
These days they calmly explain how Ukraine just needs to come to the table and discuss peace (ignoring that Ukraine wouldn't exist if they did so) and blame America for the war in Ukraine for... well... they're America. The people who want war, or are causing the war, are those giving Ukraine weapons - not the country that is literally invading it.
Thanks for the explanation. I believe they are also called Rashists, at least Ukrainians call them that.
I think a better term is "Campist" which is the trend within revisionist marxists to side with one imperialist camp to oppose another. it's the same shit the SPD did during WW1
Originally, it was used to describe communists who followed the party line and supported suppressing Hungarian workers with tanks.
Today it means ultra-authoritarian marxist-leninist.
I mean there is a word for that that's less derogatory: Stalinist
It's not entirely the same though. Some of the "tankies" in the West seem to be Maoists more than Stalinists, as far as I can tell. Besides, some (many?) Stalinists also consider the term "Stalinist" derogatory, and prefer to call themselves "Marxist-Leninists".
Ok but let's not pretend that either Marx or Lenin envisaged their form of communism as what Stalin was doing
It's no different to "free speech" suddenly meaning "free hate speech, but restricted speech on anything else"
what is "authoritarianism" to you?
heirarchy in any form
"he's not hurting the right people, " painted red
Then every social structure is authoritarian.
Anarchists usually distinguish between just and unjust hierarchies, by the way, and svoid the word "authoritarian" when describing just ones. Anarchists still need to organize themselves to have leadership and delegation.
You should read about anarchy before you speak on it lol
There are all kinds of organizational styles that are non heirarchical.
Look into horizontal organization
Also look up the zapatistas, while they do not call themselves anarchist. They use a non heirarchical form of government.
well that's just childish isn't it
do you consider that a rebuttal?
yes because it's not anything intelligent enough to be thoughtfully argued against. a 7 year old could see the holes in such an idea
I oppose one more system of authority than you do, in the interest of ideological consistency, intellectual honesty.
are you taking the position of a literal child?
There's a lot of abstractions in that link but I think the following action is a meaningful distinction to call out:
For context, the image originally said kick nazis out of punk.
genocide denier and hard authoritarian. fash dressed in red, basically.
https://redsails.org/tankies/
It's an insult used by liberals to punch left. Because liberals, as a rule, don't really read history or politics with any depth, they don't use it consistently. Sometimes it is conflated with communist. Sometimes they throw it at liberals that are just a bit less racist and xenophobic than them.
Originally it meant communists who supported the 1956 invasion of Hungary, and was used by British communists to split up their own parties on the issue.
Funny how liberals who say this only seem to disagree with communism, I guess capitalism offers you enough treats to not give a fuck about other people😘
Okay but some of them are in power right in front of you and vastly more bloodthirsty and likely to be responsible for your misery.
MLs not realizing that they are pretty much both.
You're so insufferably cocksure in your positions everywhere else, but when someone honestly asks what a tankie is, you just get defensive and can't master up the courage to just say what it is that you stand for? I really get the impression that you're just here to stir up shit.
A tankie is what liberals call people they disagree with, there you have it😪
Concrete views like the idea that the government being able to jail dissenters at will is bad? That unlimited state power inevitably leads to authoritarianism? That labeling yourself socialist doesn't necessarily mean you're actually a socialist state?
Can you give me a single state that you consider to be socialist today and that has your support? If not, has there ever been a socialist state that is worthy to be considered as that by you?
Does that mean I have to support shitty states that pretend to care about their own citizens?
No, I was just wondering if you could name any, but it looks like no state so far has been pure and beautiful enough to at least get critical support from you. I don't suppose this will change, idealism is one hell of a drug.