this post was submitted on 09 Aug 2023
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Can normal people who just don't like being tread on not have anything?
As far as I'm aware, the Gadsden flag has it's origins as a warning against the British when the American colonies started to get their shit together and become ungovernable. It seems like it might be a good time to start flying it again just about worldwide.
No, if one man I don't like uses a thing it immediately means you completely agree with everything he's ever said or done, or will in the future.
That's why I hate vegetarians, Hitler was a vegetarian.
They can have whatever they want, but you'll have to forgive people for thinking that you align with people who display the same symbols as you.
I assume anyone flying a swastika is antisemitic, when to be fair, they might just be a fan of the Nazi stance on affordable housing and infrastructure.
If you have a problem with symbols you identify with being co-opted by people you don't, take it up with the people you disagree with who took your symbol, not the people who also disagree with them.
Bad example, it's more like Finland's WW1 planes which might surprise some people
That’s a bad example, finlands air regalia was developed by a fascist.
Actually, I think that the opposite of a bad example. If I see you flying that flag, I'm not going to assume your an enthusiast of finish WW1 aviation.
I chose the swastika specifically because some other people used the symbol at some point and had it ruined for them. That's a thing that happens to symbols, they get associated with shitty stuff and you stop showing the symbol, convince people to drop the objectionable meaning, or accept that people will think you endorse the shitty one.
We're taking the Gadsden Flag back. It was never theirs to begin with. US Soccer has been using it for decades, for example.
I don't think it was ever actually co-opted. I think people saw some bearded redneck wear it as a cape in a picture above an article a couple times and then the Internet left decided it was a Nazi symbol.
The Confederate flag has a 100% legitimate argument for being a symbol of hate. The Gadsden Flag is a part of our nation's founding ideal.
Or they're Hindu and it's got nothing to do with Nazis at all.
Yes, that's sorta why I picked that example. It's a symbol that's been used in other contexts and is almost entirely associated with a specific negative use case.
If you see a guy walking around with a swastika arm band, do you really think "oh, look at that man showing pride in his Hindu beliefs”?
If they're dressed in Hindu garb, sure. I wouldn't assume they're a Nazi then. Granted it's not what we're likely to see.
That mostly depends on the angle and the location of the swastika
Also this is a rare case where the color of the skin may be a hint as to the interpretation of the flag.
"Can normal people who just don't like being tread on not have anything"
Ask the white supremesists if you can have it back
They're not gonna voluntarily give it back, so why not just take it like they did? Let's say they start flying rainbow flags, should the LGBT community just give up the rainbow flag? I've noticed a trend where the alt-right widely adopts a symbol and the left just kinda... let's them have it. Why? I don't get it. If you don't want them to have a symbol, then don't allow them to become the exclusive users of it.
I've been saying this for years. What happens is they let their leftist friends bully them into not using it for fear of appearing right wing, and the right wing wins it. Honestly if the right ever figures out they have this power it'll be...interesting...
Young people indoctrinated to socially pressure their peers into following a strict moral code. The parallels are so on-the-nose that it's almost funny.
The Moral Majority horseshoe theory is real as fuck.
What exactly do they win? What do left people lose? It's not like the LGBT movement is the rainbow flag. It's just a symbol, and if it weren't there'd be another one. This whole fighting for a thing makes sense only if there weren't infinite equivalent alternatives.
But to be fair it's really hard to co-opt the symbol of a wholly opposed group.
That's basically what happened with the word "libertarian". It originally meant libertarian socialist.
We've been surrendering words to the right for at least a century and it hasn't gone well. Every time the public decides a right wing idea is trash, the right rebrands the idea.
They're coming for "anarchist" next with monarchism rebranded as "anarcho"-capitalism.
Ancaps pretty much only exist in the US so elsewhere libertarian still means the original definition.
Reason for me to emigrate #302
A word cannot be defined as a subset of itself.
It isn't. What we now call libertarian socialist used to just be called libertarian.
We don't get many around these parts. I'm in Australia. I just think it's a kickass flag. A simple message, delivered with limited space.
Australia has their own version of that which has also been co-opted by the right.
Take back the Eureka Stockade flag and you have the equivalent
I don't know if you're aware, but we had our arses handed to us at the Eureka stockade. Anyone who didn't die was hung. You guys eventually won, whereas we were trapped into eternal service to the crown, which we still for some reason don't want to step away from. I wouldn't fly the stockade flag.
That is utterly untrue. Nobody was hung, they were acquitted. And while they certainly lost the shooting part when they ran out of ammo, they won public opinion and legal changes ( unfair/unjust treatment and taxes was the core issue)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eureka_Rebellion
"The fighting left at least 27 dead and many injured, most of the casualties being rebels"
"Open rebellion broke out on November 29, 1854, as a crowd of some 10,000 swore allegiance to the Eureka Flag."
"A group of 13 captured rebels (not including Lalor, who was in hiding) was put on trial for high treason in Melbourne, but mass public support led to their acquittal."
Noting of the 10,000, only a thousand fronted to fight, and half those deserted to go get drunk during the night
"After the oath swearing ceremony, about 1,000 rebels marched in double file from Bakery Hill to the Eureka"
"Lalor was in charge, but large numbers of the men were constantly going out of the Stockade, and as the majority got drunk, they never came back ... The 500 or 600 from Creswick had nothing to eat, and they, too, went down to the Main Road that night ... Lalor seeing that none would be left if things went on, he gave orders to shoot any man who left."
The actually fighting force was a few hundred in the end.
They did reasonably well until they ran out of ammo given they picked a really shit spot
"For at least 10 minutes, the rebels offered stiff resistance, with ranged fire coming from the Eureka Stockade garrison such that Thomas's best formation, the 40th regiment, wavered and had to be rallied. Blake says this is "stark evidence of the effectiveness of the defender's fire."
Once they ran out of ammo they were quickly over run
Who ? Are you calling me a seppo ? I'm an Aussie mate.
So campaign for a republic, Johnny Howard may have managed to kick the can down the road but nobody likes wingnut, support is rising.
Alright. This has changed my entire understanding of that flag. I am now and evermore to be known as "The Fist of Eureka" and I will fly only the flag of the stockade.
Please accept this as humble apologies for being incorrect on the internet twice in one day.
You may initially dismiss this as loud noise that you need to close immediately, but I encourage you to persevere with The Legend of Borry through to the end at least once.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3sbyesGcUE&list=PLia1J-9CU8Z5rsNKNaw1hvGelyp5Kgk-j
Well I watched the first one. So a TISM knock off band about bogans as opposed to social satire. I've heard worse I guess
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=Y3sbyesGcUE&
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.
We're not asking. We're taking the Gadsden Flag back whether they or anyone else likes it or not. It's our flag, not theirs.
The word idiot had its origin in not being elected to the senate or alike and yet you seem to be an idiot when you argue with origins instead of usage by white supremacists.
Are white supremacists really using this flag?
While the answer to this is "yes," some white supremecists are also drinking coke, and the two things are equally as relevant to white supremecy. "White Supremecy" is frankly antithetical to libertarianism, whether you're right (individualist) libertarian or left (collectivist) libertarian. It'd be like if Goldman Sachs stuck a hammer and sickle on their logo or if the proud boys hung up drei pfeile flags, it wouldn't suddenly make those symbols of capitalism or whatever the fuck the ptoud boys are, they'd just be "wrong," "stupid," "intentionally misrepresenting themselves to manipulate you or temper perceptions with a label that doesn't actually apply to them," and labels are simply a tool for control btw. This concept also applies to the Gadsden flag, or any other myriad of appropriated symbols.
Do you label yourself as libertarian or something like that? This post and the other one hint at it: https://lemmygrad.ml/comment/1115631
Is in your eyes the problem the "corporatism" of capitalism? If yes it would be funny that a person that ate that propaganda is defending fascists, since you would be carrying water for fascists.
Yes
Yes. I typed in "White Supremacists 2020 USA" and this is what I got in the first rows:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite_the_Right_rally
Look at those flags: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite_the_Right_rally#/media/File:Charlottesville_'Unite_the_Right'_Rally_(35780274914)_crop.jpg
1 Nazi flag per 2 Gadsen "Tread on me" flags and per 3 confederate flags.
Meanwhile when you search for "tread on me" flag usa 2020 you will get a vast majority of right wing white supremacists posing with that flag and little else.
I've always thought that the type of people that fly this flag usually are not very nice.
Generally not. They just want to be left alone.
They just wanna grill* for God's sake
*make some gender expressions illegal and keep people in abject poverty