this post was submitted on 10 Aug 2023
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[–] mo_ztt@lemmy.world 133 points 1 year ago (5 children)

“American democracy simply cannot function without two equally healthy and equally strong political parties,” J Michael Luttig told CNN on Wednesday. “So today, in my view, there is no Republican party to counter the Democratic party in the country.

“And for that reason, American democracy is in grave peril.”

For that reason?

That's the reason?

[–] Zorque@kbin.social 60 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I think the real reason is that the people in power keep touting this idea of only two distinct parties. Having only two parties means you have only two directions to go. Which is destined for extremism.

[–] vividspecter@lemm.ee 33 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The FPTP voting system reinforces that. Any third party is just going to be a spoiler for one of the majors without voting system reform.

[–] DarkGamer@kbin.social 24 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

This is the correct answer. Third parties are rarely viable in first-past-the-post systems. More info on Duverger's Law here.

If we had more viable parties it would be much harder to do regulatory capture and corrupt every party, and even if that happened new viable ones could spring up at any time. We might actually get candidates that represent diverse political opinions. With more parties one party would be unlikely to have a majority or supermajority, and our representatives would have to work together and form coalitions to get anything done. Politics wouldn't be a team sport about defeating the other side, it would be about shared goals and constructive legislation, and candidates would want to appeal to voters who they might be the second or third choice for, meaning scapegoating, vilifying and othering segments of society would be a losing strategy. Ranked choice voting has few downsides for anyone but those who want a corrupt system they can capture and a society they can divide.

[–] Zorque@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago

Lots of things reinforce it, the parties having a stranglehold on primaries and the media buyouts are also a major factor.

[–] Dagwood222@lemm.ee 5 points 1 year ago

Go back a few years. Circa 1960, the two parties had both Liberal and Conservative wings. There was no shame in a pol voting with the other party.

[–] PaulDevonUK@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

You need a multi party system like a lot of countries round the world. No clear winner = who can quickly form the larges coalition. It usually boils down to two main parties with a lot of also-ran's.

Over here we even have The Monster Raving Loony pary!

[–] Fisk400@lemmy.world 37 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Both the democratic and republican party are several smaller parties tied together into two disgusting rat king's. If one of them disappear today there will be an instant split of the surviving party into two new rat kings. The collapse isn't what they fear. They fear that the Overton window would move left.

[–] Burn_The_Right@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago (2 children)

And even a big move to the left would still leave us leaning right.

[–] ImFresh3x@sh.itjust.works 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

I think it’s very clear that the republicans in government are moving far right, but the electorate in general is steadily moving left.

Every year, about 4 million Americans turn 18 and gain the right to vote. In the eight years between the 2016 and 2024 elections, that’s 32 million new eligible voters.

Also every year, 2½ million older Americans die. So in the same eight years, that’s as many as 20 million fewer older voters.

Which means that between Trump’s election in 2016 and the 2024 election, the number of Gen Z (born in the late 1990s and early 2010s) voters will have advanced by a net 52 million against older people. That’s about 20 percent of the total 2020 eligible electorate of 258 million Americans.

And unlike previous generations, Gen Z votes. Comparing the four federal elections since 2015 (when the first members of Gen Z turned 18) with the preceding nine (1998 to 2014), average turnout by young voters (defined here as voters under 30) in the Trump and post-Trump years has been 25 percent higher than that of older generations at the same age before Trump — 8 percent higher in presidential years and a whopping 46 percent higher in midterms.

https://archive.ph/3Ydkn

And according to voter data. Gen z is very progressive especially on policy:

https://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/The-Exit-Polls.pdf?x91208

In 15-20 years nearly half of all boomers will be dead. The current gop can’t win a single national popular vote. Without half these boomers, they will collapse or move left. And the Overton window will shift considerably left. And with Europe moving right in a lot of counties, I’d say it wouldn’t be surprising to see the US as left as Europe in a shot time.

Also: Europe is not as left leaning as people tend to think. Aside from trains and healthcare they’re not all the left wing. And it is moving right. I’m an Italian citizen and I see it happening in Italy, and many other counties.

[–] Eldritch@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Both our parties are pretty far right talking about economics. Republicans are going full authoritarian/fascist. While Democrats grip on social democracy are becoming tenuous.

[–] archomrade@midwest.social 1 points 1 year ago

This analysis comforts me, but I heard a conflicting anecdote that suggested gen z was starting to lean more right (culturally right). I have no data to back that up, but thinking about that risk makes me not want to be complacent. 2016 still looms large in my head

[–] dx1@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Or worse, leaning up or down. We might all become textbook examples of anger prisoners.

[–] Uranium3006@kbin.social 4 points 1 year ago

party systems come and go. ours is almost over, and the republican party's death will be the cause

[–] 520@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

He's got a point. The Republican party is fundamentally not healthy at all.

[–] vividspecter@lemm.ee 20 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Yes, but the framing of it reads like the Democratic party being too powerful is the worst possible outcome, rather than the Republican party destroying society.

[–] 520@kbin.social -2 points 1 year ago

Any one party becoming too powerful is the worst possible outcome, especially in what is effectively a two party system.

Sure it might start off good, but as soon as they're comfortable with the fact that people will vote them in regardless, they will eventually stop following the will of the people.