this post was submitted on 02 Mar 2025
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[–] sp3tr4l@lemmy.zip 36 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (3 children)

A one day boycott is about as effective at sending some kind of message as taking off a condom after the first thrust is at preventing a pregnancy.

Americans are seemingly incapable of doing anything other than virtue signalling online.

I say this as an American.

I moved over from corporate tech work to take a pay cut to do tech work at a non profit helping the homeless, to actually, literally do praxis.

No one, none of my friends, none of my family, nobody seemed to understand why I believed that ones actions should align with ones beliefs.

Americans are largely performative, self-obsessed narcissists.

I am beyond disgusted with this country.

I spent a decade telling people what is currently occuring is not only possible, but becoming increasingly inevitable.

90% of people told me I was mentally ill.

10% said yes they agree, but what can you do?

Fine. Fuck it.

There is nothing we can do I guess, as doing something would involve actual planning, risk and sacrifice, and we're all a bunch of either vapid preening esoteric socialites, or murderously stupid death cultists.

Beam me up Scotty, no signs of intelligent life here.

[–] Duamerthrax@lemmy.world 11 points 1 week ago

No one, none of my friends, none of my family, nobody seemed to understand why I believed that ones actions should align with ones beliefs.

When I was in high school, I wanted pursue college to do clean energy or agricultural research. Nobody who was in a position to help me fix my education track wanted to talk about anything but careers and income. I've just been watching everything get worse and they've just been enjoying their popcorn and circuses since then.

[–] slumlordthanatos@lemmy.world 8 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Here's the thing: resistance movements don't happen overnight except in the most extreme of circumstances, and since our transfer of power was (technically) peaceful, people aren't feeling the kind of hurt that would drive them to protest just yet.

So, people who are wise enough to see what's coming have to start small. Start with a small protest, then work your way up. Boycotts like this one are good for getting people to do something to start off. It might not do a whole lot at first, but they'll start to add up as more and more people become aware of the movement.

Eventually, more drastic action can be taken, but getting people together and proving that they have the numbers to make a difference is vital, and unless a catastrophe happens, that process takes time.

[–] sp3tr4l@lemmy.zip 12 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Cool.

I've been doing such things, going to protests, volunteering for various advocacy/aid groups, helping to organize them, switched my entire career path etc., for nearly two decades...

...and what it looks like to me is... 80 to 90% of people treat what I do as an annoying ad they skip, as if me actually doing this in the real world, is indistinguishable from meaningless virtue signalling, and 10% of people are like you, coming in here and making a comment like that... for two decades.

I've been radicalized since getting simultaneous degrees in Econ and Poli Sci during the 07/08 financial crash, and since, have been doing everything I can to avert/mitigate this entirely predictable future we have now arrived at.

When was the last time you did something that actually had a positive effect on society?

At this point, I agree with Sergio Leone:

When I was young, I believed in three things: Marxism, the redemptive power of cinema, and dynamite.

Now I just believe in dynamite.

[–] SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world 6 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

People march in the street, they get ignored, they protest and get ignored. Nobody in power even cares about protests.

Literally nothing will happen until a mob starts "unelecting" this administration. So who is it going to be? Who is going to throw their life away for a bunch of strangers who don't give a fuck about them? Who will throw their life away for a country or society that doesn't give a fuck about them?

You realize you're asking for Jesus Christ here

[–] NikkiDimes@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Luigi did it. (jk of course, how could he, he was helping me with my yard work that day)

[–] SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

No he didn't, the killer got away.

[–] match@pawb.social 2 points 1 week ago

"There are no heroes left in man"

[–] kibiz0r@midwest.social 29 points 1 week ago (2 children)
[–] morrowind@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 week ago

Man this is something I struggle with outside of politics too

[–] 5in1k@lemm.ee 2 points 1 week ago

If you completely trust everyone in your coalition it is not a coalition.

[–] Red_October@lemmy.world 24 points 1 week ago (8 children)

The problem I've found with the "Buy nothing days" is that it's not really encouraging buying less. With the possible exception of a few in the moment things, it's really just pushing purchasing to the day before or the day after. Someone seeing economic data for that specific day might notice something, but even just factor in the day before and the day after and it's not going to make much of a difference. It didn't cost the corpos anything, so they won't even notice.

[–] fishos@lemmy.world 6 points 1 week ago (5 children)

I keep saying exactly this. It needs to be longer than a week and it can't be things like groceries or you're basically asking people to starve. And so many people who are supposedly fighting for the less well off don't seem to get "living paycheck to paycheck" and the idea that working 5 days a week and taking care of yourself/kids means that when you shop is largely dictated by factors out of your control. Its got "oh, just make your coffee at home to save up for a new house" or "blame the average person for climate change and not the massively polluting corporations" vibes.

[–] null_dot@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Making it longer doesn't help.

You need to boycott specific products (with ready altenratives) and have specific demands.

[–] fishos@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago (2 children)

No, making it longer would help if your only goal is to crash the economy thinking that a tantrum will solve the core problem and not just lead to a bunch of bandaid appeasements.

For the record I'm agreeing with you. We need more directed action and more specific demands. These demands need to be things that have a clear roadmap to being implemented as well, not just "I want X". Cool. Nifty. How do you expect X to be implemented in today's world? What will the steps look like?

[–] null_dot@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 week ago (2 children)

If you could rely on supporters to actually abstain from buying things for the duration of the protest, and you had enough supporters then ok extending the duration of the protest might "help" crash the economy.

What I was kind of getting at is that you really can't rely on supporters to abstain and you don't have enough supporters.

The longer the protest (or... the more inconvenient the protest), the less dedication you're going to have from supporters.

I whole heartedly agree with the screen cap in the post suggesting that protesters seem to think they can just observe some rite and all of society's ailments will be resolved. Real actual change is going to involve real actual pain, and unfortunately the plebs always carry that burden.

My feeling is that presently people are dissatisfied but not really desperate enough to undertake the civil disobedience required to invoke meaningful change. For example, could you organise enough people to boycott starbucks until they allowed employees to unionise? It would take time, organisation, and dedication. This is just one teeny tiny example of a potential first step, a rallying cry, a way to demonstrate a proof of concept. However, I just don't think it's achievable.

[–] fishos@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

My point that even if you had all the supporters you needed right now, the current plan is basically "let's crash the economy" with no forethought on what happens next. How do you crash the economy AND prevent new monopolies from forming in the wake AND not starve half the population to death in the process? No one ever addresses the second part, which is why this is exactly like the screen cap.

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[–] ByteOnBikes@slrpnk.net 23 points 1 week ago (4 children)

I grew up in a protest to save my neighborhood from being demolished for a highway.

What the news reported was the protests in front of city hall to finally convince them to move the highway.

What you didn't see was the incredible legwork getting dozens of local businesses to support us. Getting bake sales in schools to fund billboards. Doing social disobedience by blocking traffic and having people arrested. Disrupting city hall over and over and over. This was my life for months.

And it finally worked.

Can't let people know where their power lies. If enough people believe in the ritual magic of peaceful, ignorable protests, then they will justify violence against protestors who actually put real pressure for change and the system can just overlook acts of violence against protestors rather than having to actually commit them itself.

[–] BreadOven@lemmy.world 8 points 1 week ago

Fight the power. ✊🏿

[–] Hadriscus@lemm.ee 2 points 1 week ago
[–] Dagwood222@lemm.ee 2 points 1 week ago

It's easy to imagine yourself as a hero with a molotov cocktail. Not as much fun walking door to door with a petition.

[–] TheGoddessAnoia@lemmy.ca 19 points 1 week ago (4 children)

As an old Canadian socialist with the lumps to prove it, I agree. There is so much performance, and so little action. I spend time on reddit, trying to get keyboard warriors to understand that posting an opinion will not magically cause the fascist Administration to collapse and get a lot of "The media refuses to cover us!" bullpuckey. There are thousands of newsrooms in the USA that are not owned by billionaire tech bros or MAGA devotees (see, for example https://www.trustworthymedia.org/ › list-of-independent-media ) and most social media is still wide open to pictures and facts about your actions. If you are acting, let the independent media -- most but not all of whom are progressive, check first -- know and post your pictures (faces blurred if need be) and stories everywhere you can reach people.

Meantime, buy Canadian, buy local, or don't buy at all, at least it's something!

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[–] HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 14 points 1 week ago (1 children)

My favorite restaurant is not a chain, I'm a regular there, and they have a once a month special on one of these days. I would rather support them on one of these days than buy nothing.

To be fair any excuse to eat there is good. Greek food is awesome.

[–] GreyDawn@lemmy.world 6 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Most likely they are buying most of their products from Sysco Corporation. Small businesses are still not immune to large corporations. The could of course also be simply buying from a local Costco Business Center. The issue is that large corp owns and controls everything. It's already too late but do what you can. Doing something is better than nothing.

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[–] NateNate60@lemmy.world 13 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Rule number 1 of protesting is always that if the protest can be suffered or ignored, then it will be.

[–] sundrei@lemmy.sdf.org 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

The key to non-violent protest is that you don't plan on going home afterward. You go, you stay, and you don't leave -- until somebody drags you to the jail, the hospital, or the morgue.

[–] Aqarius@lemmy.world 12 points 1 week ago (2 children)

The key to nonviolent protest is that they have to be an alternative to violence - in other words, both sides must be fully aware that either nonviolence works or violence follows.

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[–] Ilovethebomb@lemm.ee 4 points 1 week ago (2 children)

I don't think that's fair, the fact that enough people care enough to show up and protest can have an effect by itself.

Often that's only if those in power worry there will be consequences for the protests being ignored. It could be as simply as worry about being kicked out of office, damage to property, or damage to them or their family (such as Republicans staying in line with Trump because of worries about stochastic terrorism).

[–] CuddlyCassowary@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Yes, and it can have an effect on the people doing the protest. I was supposed to go to dinner on 2/28 with four people. I canceled that morning when I realized it was “buy nothing” day (and told them why). Those four also canceled and became curious about where to learn more about protest movements. We’ve now committed to supporting each other to escalate our efforts into more impactful actions. So, keep in mind some protests are more about rallying the troops, creating cohesion, educating, and supporting each other than impacting direct change with that particular action. Protests are just one tool in the arsenal.

[–] angrystego@lemmy.world 9 points 1 week ago (1 children)

What is not usually mentioned is the psychological effect protests have on the people attending. The feeling of being one of many who care about an issue gives people hope and energy to keep tring to change it.

[–] Shardikprime@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago

While at the same time not doing anything meaningful involving actual work

Progressives have weaponized procrastination against themselves

[–] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 9 points 1 week ago

Look at what the right is doing. They go after targets with disproportionate force to force change. "Don't buy anything" is easy for a day and hard for long. "Refuse to purchase anheiser Busch products because they caved to bigots" is less difficult and leaves a message.

[–] mavu@discuss.tchncs.de 9 points 1 week ago

wikipedia/cargo_cult

[–] Korhaka@sopuli.xyz 8 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I don't buy anything on most days normally. Days isn't going to do anything and stop telling yourself it will.

Stop it entirely or as much as you possibly can. Never order from Amazon again. Where you do need to buy stuff buy as little as possible. Stop visiting pubs and restaurants. If your goal is to damage the US economy. Avoid as much as you possibly can that goes towards it.

[–] Sergio@slrpnk.net 7 points 1 week ago (1 children)

imho the chapter on "Tactics" in Alinski's Rules for Radicals provides a lot of ideas on how to avoid performative activism.

[–] lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.com 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

From the description

First published in 1971, Rules for Radicals is Saul Alinsky's impassioned counsel to young radicals on how to effect constructive social change and know the difference between being a realistic radical and being a rhetorical one. […] Alinsky was able to combine, both in his person and his writing, the intensity of political engagement with an absolute insistence on rational political discourse and adherence to the American democratic tradition.

In today's social climate with today's regard for rational discourse & democratic tradition? Are we doomed?

[–] Sergio@slrpnk.net 3 points 1 week ago

Alinsky lived in a time of McCarthyism and Nixon and the Southern Strategy. I'm not an expert on the guy, but I don't think he'd say we're doomed.

[–] Hadriscus@lemm.ee 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

hah ! that's almost a cargo cult

[–] zarkanian@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Not almost. It is. Cargo cult activism.

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[–] GrumpyDuckling@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

What do you mean by "ground level infrastructure?" Like educating people? A forum for communication? Everyone is on social media and social media is censoring that stuff. Civil rights era people eere in churches because those were the social venues of the day.

[–] themoken@startrek.website 3 points 1 week ago

Ground level infrastructure meaning the ability to get people out to do anything from marching to rioting to picketing to canvassing to voting. The Civil Rights movement wouldn't have gotten anywhere if it hadn't actually mobilized people and thus made people aware of / afraid of organized resistance. The Black Panthers deserve a lot of credit as well for being the armed hard core of the movement.

We'd get a lot more of what we want peacefully if oligarchs were afraid we'd rally and fuck up their businesses bottom lines AND that they might get assassinated by radicals.

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