this post was submitted on 26 Dec 2024
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[–] echodot@feddit.uk 14 points 1 day ago (7 children)

Is there a way to actually read the article without having to be exposed to whatever the drug fueled hellscape that website is?

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[–] Sanctus@lemmy.world 35 points 1 day ago (3 children)

This is my current addiction. No need graphix.

[–] noxypaws@pawb.social 7 points 1 day ago (1 children)
[–] SkyeStarfall@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 points 1 day ago (5 children)

Your thirst is mine, my water is yours

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[–] p03locke@lemmy.dbzer0.com 36 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (3 children)

This author has no fucking clue that the indie gaming industry exists.

Balatro screenshot

Like Balatro... you know, the fucking Indie Game of the Year, that was also nominated for Best Game of the Year at the Game Awards.

Localthunk was able to build this in Lua... WITH A BOX OF SCRAPS!

[–] ampersandrew@lemmy.world 12 points 1 day ago (1 children)

This article wasn't about indie games.

[–] p03locke@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Ignoring indie games here is ignoring the answer to the entire premise. It's part of the equation.

It would be like complaining that there's no place to see big cats, while not mentioning the zoo at all.

[–] Neon@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Please read the Article before commenting....

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[–] xavier666@lemm.ee 3 points 23 hours ago

I'm sorry sir, but I'm not an indie dev. I need to show the investors that my game will earn $100 million otherwise it's a failure.

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[–] Nexy@lemmy.sdf.org 18 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Unpopular opinion but I preferer the graphics of a game were absolute trash but the ost be awesome. I can forget easyly how much individual hairs are in a 3d model, but good OST will live in my mind and heart forever.

And of course gameplay go first.

[–] elucubra@sopuli.xyz 7 points 22 hours ago

The Wii was a fantastic example of this. Less capable hardware used in very imaginative ways, and had the capacity to bring older people into the games

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[–] makyo@lemmy.world 84 points 1 day ago (2 children)
[–] teslasaur@lemmy.world 2 points 17 hours ago (3 children)

Story goes somewhere below Replay value, and controls go to number one. Gameplay and controls are pretty much interchangable unless you want a cinema simulator.

Add sound design as number two above music as number three and then the list is done.

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[–] TheV2@programming.dev 13 points 1 day ago

Well, everyone has their priorities. The problem is that even the people, who do value realistic graphics the most, are not captured by new AAA games.

[–] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 116 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (5 children)

There are a number of theories why gamers have turned their backs on realism. One hypothesis is that players got tired of seeing the same artistic style in major releases.

Whoosh.

We learned all the way back in the Team Fortress 2 and Psychonauts days that hyper-realistic graphics will always age poorly, whereas stylized art always ages well. (Psychonauts aged so well that its 16-year-later sequel kept and refined the style, which went from limitations of hardware to straight up muppets)

There's a reason Overwatch followed the stylized art path that TF2 had already tread, because the art style will age well as technology progresses.

Anyway, I thought this phenomena was well known. Working within the limitations of the technology you have available can be pushed towards brilliant design. It's like when Twitter first appeared, I had comedy-writing friends who used the limitation of 140 characters as a tool for writing tighter comedy, forcing them to work within a 140 character limitation for a joke.

Working within your limitations can actually make your art better, which just complements the fact that stylized art lasts longer before it looks ugly.

Others speculate that cinematic graphics require so much time and money to develop that gameplay suffers, leaving customers with a hollow experience.

Also, as others have pointed out, it's capitalism and the desire for endless shareholder value increase year after year.

Cyberpunk 2077 is a perfect example. A technical achievement that is stunningly beautiful where they had to cut tons of planned content (like wall-running) because they simply couldn't get it working before investors were demanding that the game be put out. As people saw with the Phantom Liberty, given enough time, Cyberpunk 2077 could have been a masterpiece on release, but the investors simply didn't give CD Project Red enough time before they cut the purse strings and said "we want our money back... now." It's a choice to release too early.

...but on the other hand it's also a choice to release too late after languishing in development hell a la Duke Nukem Forever.

[–] Ashtear@lemm.ee 21 points 1 day ago

Unfortunately, Cyberpunk is exactly the kind of product that is going to keep driving the realistic approach. It's four years later now and the game's visuals are still state-of-the-art in many areas. Even after earning as much backlash on release as any game in recent memory, it was a massively profitable project in the end.

This is why Sony, Microsoft, and the big third parties like Ubisoft keep taking shots in this realm.

[–] sp3tr4l@lemmy.zip 14 points 1 day ago

Just wanna throw Windwaker into the examples of highly stylized art style games that aged great.

[–] RageAgainstTheRich@lemmy.world 34 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I honestly feel like this with Genshin Impact. It looks absolutely breathtaking and in 20 years it will still be beautiful. It runs on a damn potato. I personally like the lighting in a lot of scenes way better than the lighting in some titles that have path tracing.

I have always liked art styles in games better than realism.

[–] HollowNaught@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Sure, but I'm still going to say "fuck mihoyo"

[–] stephen01king@lemmy.zip 17 points 1 day ago (1 children)

In what world does Genshin runs well on a potato? Unless you have a different definition of potato than me. My Galaxy S10e can barely play the game, and it's not even slow enough to be called a potato

[–] MHLoppy@fedia.io 25 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Might be talking within the context of PC gaming, where even a relative potato will beat the performance of a flagship phone.

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[–] DarkThoughts@fedia.io 26 points 1 day ago (2 children)

It's not that I don't like realistic graphics. But I'm not gonna pay 100 bucks per game + micro transactions and / or live service shenanigans to get it. Nowadays it's not even that hard to have good looking games, thanks to all the work that went into modern engines. Obviously cutting edge graphics still need talented artists who create all the textures and high poly models but at some point the graphical fidelity gained becomes minuscule, compared to the effort put into it (and the performance it eats, since this bleeds into the absurd GPU topic too).

There's also plenty of creative stylization options that can be explored that aren't your typical WoW cartoon look that everyone goes for nowadays. Hell, I still love pixel art games too and they're often considered to be on the bottom end of the graphical quality (which I'd heavily disagree with, but that's also another topic).

What gamers want are good games that don't feel like they get constantly milked or prioritize graphics over gameplay or story.

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[–] anakin78z@lemmy.world 18 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I just played Dragon Age Veilguard, and I'm now playing Dragon Age Origins, which was released 15 years ago. The difference in graphics and animation are startling. And it has a big effect on my enjoyment of the game. Origins is considered by many to be the best in the series, and I can see that they poured a ton into story options and such. But it doesn't feel nearly as good as playing Veilguard.

Amazing graphics might not make or break a game, but the minimum level of what's acceptable is always rising. Couple that with higher resolutions and other hardware advances, and art budgets are going to keep going up.

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[–] scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech 48 points 1 day ago (8 children)

How hard is it for them to realize this? Graphics are a nice to have, they're great, but they do not hold up an entire game. Star wars outlaws looked great, but the story was boring. If they took just a fraction of the money they spent on realism to give to writers and then let the writers do their job freely without getting in their way they could make some truly great games.

[–] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 48 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Look, I'm gonna be real with you, the pool of writers who are exceptionally good at specifically writing for games is really damn small.

Everyone is trained on novels and movies, and so many games try to hamfist in a three-act arc because they haven't figured out that this is an entirely different medium and needs its own set of rules for how art plays out.

Traditional filmmaking ideas includes stuff like the direction a character is moving on the screen impacting what the scene "means." Stuff like that is basically impossible to cultivate in, say, a first or third-person game where you can't be sure what direction characters will be seen moving. Thus, games need their own narrative rules.

I think the first person to really crack those rules was Yoko Taro, that guy knows how to write for a game specifically.

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[–] caut_R@lemmy.world 27 points 1 day ago (1 children)

And I don‘t think games have to look that good either… I‘m currently playing MGSV and that game‘s 8 years old, runs at 60 fps on the Deck, and looks amazing. It feels like hundreds of millions are being burned on deminishing returns nowadays…

[–] SupraMario@lemmy.world 17 points 1 day ago (8 children)

It's bullshit accounting, they're not spending it on the devs or the games, they're spending it on advertising and the c levels Paydays. There are a ton of really good looking games, that had what would be considered shoestring budgets, but these companies bitching about it aren't actually in it for the games anymore, its just for the money.

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[–] cybervseas@lemmy.world 41 points 1 day ago (1 children)

It's nice to see gaming covered in NYT at all. The article generally rings hollow to me. I'm not an industry expert, but:

  • It's easy to be profitable when you're just making a sandbox and your players make the games, but at that point are you a game developer? (Roblox)
  • High end graphics cards have become so expensive that people can't afford gaming with good graphics
  • AAA developers aren't optimizing games as well as they used to, so only high end hardware would even run them
  • AAA is more focused on loot boxes, microtransactions, season passes, and cinematics all wrapped up in great visuals. That's at the expense of innovative gameplay and interesting stories. Making the graphics worse won't get execs to greenlight better games, just uglier ones. And they'll still be $70.
  • Even when games are huge successes and profitable, studios are getting bought and shut down (EA, Microsoft, Sony?), so it's hard to say the corps are hurting.
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[–] yesman@lemmy.world 35 points 1 day ago

This article's reasoning is faith based. The cornerstone assumption is that industry profits and layoffs obey the preferences of the market.

To those who follow the industry, this is demonstrably false. What follows is the lack of awareness on full display:

and even though Spider-Man 2 sold more than 11 million copies, several members of Insomniac lost their jobs when Sony announced 900 layoffs in February.

[–] apfelwoiSchoppen@lemmy.world 30 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

It is hard for me to take seriously a hand-wringing industry that makes more money than most entertainment industries. Capitalism is the primary cause of articles like this. Investors simply demand moar each year, otherwise it is somehow a sign of stagnation or poor performance.

AAA studios could be different, but they choose to play the same game as every other sector. Small studios and independents suffer much more because of the downstream effects of the greedy AAAs establishing market norms.

We need unionization, folks. Broad unionization across sectors to fight against ownership/investor greed. It won't solve everything but it will certainly stem the worst of it.

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