That sounds like a disaster for Honda. Nissan doesn't hardly have anything to offer except supply/sales volume. Honda beats them on engine tech, transmission tech, chassis tech, basically everything. Honda has lots to lose by taking on their mess, and Nissan doesn't.
this post was submitted on 17 Dec 2024
180 points (98.4% liked)
World News
39397 readers
3194 users here now
A community for discussing events around the World
Rules:
-
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
-
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
-
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
-
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
-
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
-
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
-
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
-
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
Lemmy World Partners
News !news@lemmy.world
Politics !politics@lemmy.world
World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world
Recommendations
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
I don't know about in Japan, but in the US, Nissan has a sub-$30k EV with the Leaf and Honda does not. So that would be worth something to them considering California is trying to phase out ICE cars.
https://insideevs.com/news/744407/ev-california-gas-car-sales-ban-2035/
That's still only a single model that is <8% of Nissan's already abysmal US sales volume. Nissan's massive pile of garbage that fills up the rest of portfolio (and institutional problems behind the scenes) is absolutely NOT worth dealing with for the technology in a single model like that, even if it is "necessary" to offer to ensure compliance eith wishy washy regulatory soon-to-be's. They would be much better off clean-slating their own, EV tech is significantly easier to develop compared to new ICE designs and if anyone is capable of that, it's Honda.
It's a single model and virtually the only model of EV less affluent Americans can afford. That's a huge market.
It is a big, untapped market but it's not a big market for the Leaf. Tesla sold 3x more Model 3 in the last year alone than Nissan has sold in the entire 14 year production run of the Leaf. It's a hot mess.
The Model 3 is over $40,000. It's selling more because Americans are barely even aware cheaper EVs exist.
I think it's more that they don't want to choose the lowest quality option when making such a large purchase. I'd rather spend an extra few thousand, spread over 5 years or whatever term length you choose, to get something that gives more power, range, and features than be stuck with a low quality EV that barely gets a 100 mile range after my loan is paid off.
The Bolt is another cheap EV that sells quite a bit better than the Leaf but still it's a tiny fraction of what more expensive models like the Model 3 or Ioniq 5 sell because it's so limited. You aren't going to fit your family of 4 or 5 inside on comfortably, so why not just spend a little more to get something that can be used outside of solo work commutes if you're going to be spending tens of thousands on it either way?
It's the same reason why people buy trucks even if they only need a truck 2-3 times a year. It's better to have a vehicle that can check all the boxes than something that'll perform well in only a few areas of use.
It must be nice to have an extra few thousand to spend.
Well, we are talking about buying new cars, so I wouldn't consider that the right choice for someone living paycheck to paycheck.
I'm simply pointing out that it doesn't make sense to spend $35k on a shitbox when you can spend $40k on something decent. When cash is tight, it makes sense to go for the best value even if it means spending a fraction more up front (or in this case, spread out over multiple years). How will you feel about the $35k you spent on the car when you can't use it because the range is shit and the battery wears out quickly from constantly draining and recharging its entire capacity?
This is not any different than buying a $1000 used car that costs you $5000 in gas per year versus a $5000 car that costs $1000 in gas per year. Which one would you pick?
Except the chevy volt is in the same sub 30k category and they handily beat the pants off of the leaf in range. The leaf only gets a meager 149 miles per charge. The volt can go about 100 miles further and has the ability to charge faster.
? I own a leaf and get 215 miles per charge... Plus for most peoples the 149 on the base model is fine to go to work and back daily
2020 leaf sv plus owner here. Range is 212 officially but when my car is full charge it tells me 215 iirc
Why are you giving a question mark? The only leaf under $30k is the base with a 149 mile range. The sv plus with the 212 range is like $37k. That's $10,000 more than a volt and still like 30 or 40 miles less range.
Also, yes, 149 would be enough for most people who never want a vehicleto take out of town, but you're leaving out a huge amount of problems with a range like that. First, if you're going to charge it every day it means you better own a house and garage to keep it in and charge, because charging stations for 45 minutes every other day or so would be terrible to deal with. Then if you live in a place where it gets really cold that mileage will be hacked down to about 110 miles. Plus, your battery will not last nearly as long if you have to use most of its range all the time and always have to charge it up to 100% full. Charging an EV up to just 80% or so capacity and recharging it at about 20% will literally double the lifespan of the battery. A small capacity EV like that won't last nearly as long as one with a bigger battery.
I absolutely agree with you there. For consumer space this merger doesn't make sense for Honda. For Nissan share holder, this is fantastic.. Only thing I can think of is Nissan has some EV tech that Honda could use but that's quite the stretch. Nissan actually jumped into EV relatively early but they didn't iterate on it quickly enough to matter. Honda has been dragging their feet on EV and they both completely missed the boat on bridge tech offering like plug in hybrid. This merger isn't going to do anything to fix that.
Since Nissan is now a low end brand and Honda is moving more towards premium side perhaps being together would cover the market segments better. The merger absolutely does nothing for the high end market though.
The one thing that I don't know anything about is the commercial market domestically in Japan. Perhaps Nissan has good market share which Honda could gain from this merger. Maybe someone could chime in on this.
Public perception is also a factor. Even seeing collaborated cars like their EV Chevy thing takes away from Honda's perception of reliability.
no don't nissan my hondas :(
Honestly though….. I wouldn’t be against a Honda’d Nissan…….
*Except the electronics
There goes another dependable car, motorcycle and outboard manufacturer. Nissan is the Japanese Renault, or any of the Stellantis brands. I have owned 2 Nissans and a Honda. I'd buy a currrent Honda in a heartbeat. I won't touch a Nissan with a 10 ft pole.
Oh yay more whittling down of an already conglomerated industry surely this will be good for people
Japanese companies have a history of consolidating to be able to compete with foreign companies. This is in response to the sudden rise of Chinese companies and China replacing Japan as the top automotive exporter.
Do they though? Foreign companies are far more consolidated.
Nissan has been a dumpster fire for two decades. Honda should steer clear.
Nissan holds a majority stake with Mitsubishi. That actually might be worth something to Honda, and they also seem to be able to produce some cheap evs, like the leaf which Honda doesn't seem able to do currently.
Mitsubishi the conglomerate or Mitsubishi the automaker? The former seems good but not the latter.
Auto I believe, but that still might be useful. They have access to Cummins engines, which are basically one of the only manufacturers that meet the next phase of ghg emissions requirements. Plus since Honda seems to be retooling their factories for solid state batteries, it might allow them to produce some stop gap evs without relying on other manufacturers like GM (Hondas latest is just a rebadged Chevy Blazer EV).
On the other hand, maybe a merger will help them get their shit together and compete with Toyota.
They definitely need to pump the brakes on this potential merger.
GTR Type-R? 😳👉👈
With the current market we're more likely to see a Juke CRV 🤢
Maybe a Murano Pilot Cabriolet
V-Tec Mitsubishi lancer evo (because Nissan has a majority stake in Mitsubishi)? 👉👈
Nissan Z with Vtec?
🥺 👉👈
VTEC just kicked in yo
(Ancient meme time)
Edit: I miss my accord
I just want those Skyline R34s back
Guaranteed this just turns Honda into Nissan quality
Drop a honda NA 4 cylinder drivetrain into a nissan vehicle and sell it for a lower price than a Honda and I'd be cool with it. Nissans only really issue is their engines and trannys they use.
A good point, but I do like the observation that the only problems Nissan has are with the two most important parts of a vehicle.
This is some pretty good spaghetti, just the noodles and sauce are trash.
And now it's some great spaghetti because it was good before, but now the noodles and sauce are way better?
sparks
radio goes out
I didn't need it anyway.
I dunno. There are some very enthusiastic Honda fanboys that will be watching like a hawk.
This could just be Nissan reading the writing on the wall and choosing to do something about it before it's too late.
Honda still needs to rely on more than "nationalism" to sell their cars, unlike American brands.
They were on their way.
You don't go less and less and less and less displacement forever and not expect some hiccups. Their new engines have been less engine, more pressure-cooker.
Ain't like the old K and J engine bro-team that took the 2000's and 2010's.
Could Honda's interest be based on Nissan's frame-based trucks? I don't think Honda has any recent history in those markets.
Better tech for Mitsubishi will also be well received
Hamimsmaham
Honda, Nissan-> Hinsan or Nosda or Honsan or Nisda. Or if we can randomize... Nionhassdan would be popular with the ladies.
How about a Datsun?
Your Ford Lincoln Mercury dealer. BMW Volkswagen dealer. Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep. There are tons of companies owned together that keep names around because they can use them for various reasons. Whether it be quality lines they want seperated due to market. People don't go to the Bentley dealer looking to buy a VW Beetle.
RIP Mitsubishi motors. Went bankrupt and then got nissan'd into the void.
That's not true, they still exist in 2077
Bye bye Honda