this post was submitted on 23 Oct 2024
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[–] MehBlah@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago
[–] reddig33@lemmy.world 17 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Deregulation is the problem.

  • allowing companies to merge until they become “too big to fail”
  • allowing companies to poison our environment and our bodies without fear of substantial repercussions
  • allowing companies to make false product claims without fear of substantial repercussions
  • allowing companies to lobby and contribute to political campaigns even though they can’t vote
[–] Semjaza@lemmynsfw.com 3 points 1 week ago

I agree, but add the proviso that since under capitalism capital is power, those with the most capital will slowly find ways to use their capital to deregulate their income streams again.

Supporting friendly politicians, editorial control of the media, or even just the good old Starbucks/Wallmart practice of squashing independent competitors by leveraging economies of scale to outcompete on price - which at the end of the day, the poor customer has to pay attention to. These are all examples of how capital will find ways to get ahead.

Even if companies can't donate, the CEO or every member of the board still can.

[–] Cryophilia@lemmy.world 23 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (3 children)

Bracing for downvotes here...

Capitalism is good when properly regulated. Capitalism is an incredible tool for raising living standards, which should be the ultimate goal of any aociety. Disfunctional capitalism produces inequity.

Now I know someone is going to say that capitalists tend to accrue power, to which I say that is EVERY system. They ALL need to be kept in check. Socialism, feudalism, anarchy, oligarchy, it doesn't matter. Someone will try to accrue power. The economic system MUST be subordinate to the government, and ideally that government should represent the will (or at least the best interests) of the people.

I am FIRMLY in the "the system is broken and needs to be fixed" camp. Regulatory capture is a result of disfunctional capitalism. Monopolies are a result of disfunctional capitalism. Cronyism is a result of disfunctional capitalism. Capitalism as a system is not inherently bad except in the way that any system when allowed to run unchecked is bad.

A strong government hand, when wielded by empathetic and civic-minded people, is a requirement for any economic system. Given that, capitalism is the best economic model the world has ever seen.

Edit: pleasantly surprised. Shitlibs assemble?

[–] JubilantJaguar@lemmy.world 8 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Well said. I agree with you, but with one caveat. A big caveat.

Capitalism does not seem to be compatible with our ecological substrate. By now everyone should be familiar with the basic facts of what humans are doing to the natural world. All of those negative indicators are strongly correlated with economic growth. The only times the warning lights flicker off - momentarily - is in the aftermath of economic crashes. Then the graphs resume their downward trajectories.

Unlike doctrinaire leftists, I am ready to accept that capitalism has been generally good for humans as a species. But the evidence is clear: it's been an absolute disaster for the environment. The very nature of capitalism is that it's unsustainable. We're running up a bill and one day soon it's going to have to be paid.

[–] Cryophilia@lemmy.world 0 points 1 week ago

The very nature of capitalism is that it’s unsustainable

Again, this is a feature of (almost) all economic systems. With appropriate regulation and government incentives, it's not a problem.

We have probably hit peak fossil fuels this year. Every year henceforth, fossil fuel use will go down. Why? Capitalism. Competition in solar panel and wind turbine manufacture and installation, prompted by government incentives and private charitable action, has made renewable energy cheaper than fossil fuels.

Capitalism is a tool that we can use, and when it's under control it works.

Also, credit where credit is due, China's autocratic version of capitalism has done better than America's laissez faire or Europe's social democratic capitalism in this regard. But it's still capitalism.

[–] Adderbox76@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 week ago

No downvote. I 100% agree.

[–] Clinicallydepressedpoochie@lemmy.world 4 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

I will add. Saying a system is flawed because it can't prevent any number of unintended outcomes only proves all systems are inherently flawed. Like it or not a robust system isn't just one simplified into anarchy but has measures in place to minimize unintended results and maximize desired outcomes. This all happens in practice. A robust system accounts for the need to make measured adjustments that won't eliminate the bad but reduce it to more acceptable levels.

Trying to achieve the perfect system will only drive you straight into the hands of a flawed one.

[–] webadict@lemmy.world 8 points 1 week ago (13 children)

You should define what you think is capitalism, cronyism, and meritocracy, because you seem to have an answer in your head that you don't wish to divulge.

Capitalism is the idea that those that own the means of production own the profits from them.

Meritocracy is the idea that those with skill will prevail over those without.

I will argue that capitalism IS meritocratic, but the problem is that that which capitalism holds in high merits is that which generates capital at the fastest rate. Good products do not necessarily earn more money over bad products faster. Capitalism only cares about the fastest acquisition of capital through whatever barriers are present. This means it inherently does not care about labor that doesn't generate profit (immediately).

Those that hold capital get to choose what merits we look for. Software developers or teachers, which can make more money? Childcare workers or lawyers, which can make more money? We pretend like the difference in these jobs and their pay is skill, but we treat various labor differently because we assign a higher capital interest to some labor, like the ability to write a contract or write a program, and a lower capital interest to other labor, like taking care of a child or teaching someone valuable skills. We pretend like physical, emotional, and reproductive labor is less skillful than intellectual labor because it doesn't make as much money for capital, but the truth is that only capital gets to choose what is high-skilled and what gets to be paid like it's high-skilled.

Thus, while capitalism is meritocratic in a sense, it is not meritocratic for workers, and will always devolve into a class-based system by design. I could argue that by choosing what is worth more money, they create their own cronyism, but that is really more of a moot point.

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[–] BackOnMyBS@lemmy.autism.place 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

The problem is both. Certain people will always try to exploit regardless of the intent of the system. The problem then isn't that there are people that exploit. We need to accept that those people will always exist because it's just a part of humanity. We evolved to have a spectrum of personalities in our groups. And, we can't get rid of them because they have every right to exists like everyone else. I think the best solution is to create system accepting who we are as a species that prevents the ability for anyone to hoard massive amounts of wealth and power.

Democratize everything. Democratize the government, democratize the economy, democratize neighborhoods, democratize work places, democratize the world. Spread power equally amongst everyone. No one should be powerful enough to control the government. No one should be wealthy enough to control the economy. And, if we experience democracy in our local groups with which we have direct interactions on a regular basis, democracy becomes a universal expectation. We learn how it works through experiential lessons everyday. We learn what it feels like, we learn its strengths, and we learn its weaknesses. Universal democracy is the solution because it prevents the ability for anyone person to accumulate power and control over others.

The downside is that democracy is slow and disorganized. It cannot compete against a unified group with a strong leader because it's not as quick and decisive. Thus, to have democracy that is universal across all system levels, it must be universal across all of humanity as well. One place cant be democratic while another is not. Democracy is all-or-none, baby 😘

I'm not really into arguing any of your points but I remember watching some commune reality TV show. They decided everything by counsel it was interesting, not exactly fair though.

At some point you must accept that there is no silver bullet and start working with the tools you have available. At least, let others use those tools, responsibly.

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