If you don't retain some kind of actual ownership, they will not be allowed to use terms like "buy" or "purchase" on the store page button. I hope there aren't huge holes in this that allow bad actors to get around it, but I certainly loathe the fact that there's no real way to buy a movie or TV show digitally. Not really.

EDIT: On re-reading it, there may be huge holes in it. Like if they just "clearly tell you" how little you're getting when you buy it, they can still say "buy" and "purchase".

top 50 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[–] chemicalprophet@lemm.ee 7 points 1 day ago

I’m not sore how downloading cars works but when I do it it feels like I own it…

[–] Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 19 points 1 day ago (4 children)

"Ubisoft take note"

Ubisoft is nothing compared to Valve... You don't own anything you purchase on Steam and it's the biggest store by a huge margin, don't know why Ubisoft is mentioned specifically...

[–] ImplyingImplications@lemmy.ca 29 points 1 day ago (2 children)

You don't own anything you purchase on Steam

Games sold on Steam are not required to use Steam's DRM. There are lots of DRM free games on Steam. Steam is only required to be installed to purchase/download them but not to run them. After download, the game files can be copied and ran on any computer without any verification.

[+] Kecessa@sh.itjust.works -7 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

So they're not DRM free then if you need Steam to download them. You also need to be connected to the internet at least once to confirm ownership, so even if you download it once and think that you can now just transfer the game from one PC to another without an internet connection or without Steam, you can't.

DRM free and actual ownership means physical. The closest you'll get to that with digital games is through GOG or Itch.io or anything similar where you can download the actual install files and you don't need any launcher at all.

[–] fushuan@lemm.ee 2 points 1 day ago

once you downloaded the game you can copy it into a pendrive, upload it into mega or whatever storage and use it. I don't get why y'all get so held up at the fact that steam might stop offering infinite downloads. Once you have downloaded the game you are free to burn it or store it wherever! This is different from streaming music for example, since with music you never have a local copy you can work with.

so even if you download it once and think that you can now just transfer the game from one PC to another without an internet connection or without Steam, you can't.

You can. I have several games where I can literally copy the game folder into another computer, press the executable and be able to play it offline. Terraria, vampire survivors, stardew valley, pathfinder: WOTR, Grim Dawn, AoE2... And more. I literally have "backup" zips of several path versions of grim dawn to play different mods because I'm too lazy to patch the game each time I want to replay different versions.

DRM free and actual ownership means physical

Once the game it's in your system it's as physical as it can get. There's no difference of storage in your disk, a pendrive, an external drive or an optical CD. You give the example of GoG, there's plenty games in steam that once "installed" have all the files in the game folder and you can easily move them.

[–] FreeLikeGNU@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago

You can purchase the game in a web browser and use steamcmd, which (one could argue is still requiring an app) to download and install. In cases where the publisher is not invoking DRM (Larian games like BG3, DoS2, etc. for instance) once the game is downloaded you can certainly archive it and transfer it to another machine and run it there without Steam. In the end you are likely purchasing proprietary software (though again it's not always the case on Steam) and we could say you don't really own that either, so maybe take your complaints to the publishers or just use the power of your wallet and not buy those games and support libre games, of which there are many, another way. That said, Valve is actively making things better for users by developing and contributing to useful libre software like Proton (WINE, DXVK, etc) that can work outside of Steam.

load more comments (1 replies)

[–] SmilingSolaris@lemmy.world 21 points 1 day ago (10 children)

In the unlikely event of the discontinuation of the Steam network,” Valve reps have said, “measures are in place to ensure that all users will continue to have access to their Steam games.”

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.world 10 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

If there is one think we should all have learned by now in this Era is that talk means nothing at all: there have to be hard contractual clausules along with personal punishment for those who break them or some kind of escrow system for money meant to go into that "end of life" plan for it to actually be genuine.

"Valve reps have said" is worth as much as the paper it's written on and that stuff is not even written on paper.

[–] SmilingSolaris@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Except they have proven this so far to be accurate. Games that have long since been removed from sale are still downloadable for people who purchased them at the time. Which is more than others can say.

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Well, as the guy falling from the top of the Empire State Building was overheard saying on his way down: "well, so far so good".

Or as the common caveat given to retail investors goes: past performance is no predictor of future results.

"So far" proves nothing because it can be "so far" only because the conditions for something different haven't yet happenned or it simply hasn't been in their best interest yet to act differently.

If their intentions were really the purest, most honest and genuine of all, they could have placed themselves under a contractual obligation to do so and put money aside for an "end of life plan" in a way such that they can't legally use it for other things, or even done like GoG and provided offline installer to those people who want them.

Steam have chosen to maintain their ability to claw back games in your library whilst they could have done otherwise as demonstrated by GoG which let you download offline installers - no matter what they say, their actions to keep open the option of doing otherwise say the very opposite.

load more comments (1 replies)

load more comments (9 replies)

load more comments (2 replies)

[–] catloaf@lemm.ee 35 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Much like California's other good-sounding laws, the fine print is what gets you on both ends, both in the law and in the EULA you agree to when signing up that's going to say that all transactions are explicitly a terminable and revocable license.

[–] dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world 19 points 2 days ago

A revocable license for a virtual "product" whereupon they absolutely do not give you back your real world dollars if they terminate said license.

There's no power imbalance in this transaction at all, no siree.

Anyway, I'm all for making backups of things. So you de-licensed me. Big whoop. I still have the file and I can still play it, and nobody can physically stop me.

[–] JusticeForPorygon@lemmy.world 14 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I suppose that's the difference between laws in the US vs the EU. In the US the wording of the law is everything. If you find some absurd loophole due to weird grammar, good for you. In the EU, at least from an outsiders perspective, the law is enforced as it was intended to be, and if you try to fuck around with wording you get fined.

[–] catloaf@lemm.ee 12 points 2 days ago (1 children)

That's the thing, though, it's not a loophole. It's intentional. It makes a good headline, but it doesn't really do much.

[–] JusticeForPorygon@lemmy.world 7 points 2 days ago

That's probably a better way of putting it. "Pretending to help"

[–] Olap@lemmy.world 86 points 2 days ago (1 children)

The power to destroy a thing is the absolute control over it

DRM violates this principle. Atreides forever

[–] catloaf@lemm.ee 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

How do you figure? If the DRM depends on them, doesn't that give them the power to destroy it?

[–] Olap@lemmy.world 11 points 1 day ago

DRM infected files mean that you as a consumer don't own anything. As someome else can destroy it.

[–] parpol@programming.dev 40 points 2 days ago (2 children)

They will get around it. Instead I suggest that buy buttons should say what you're buying.

For example: Just "buy" should not be allowed.

"Buy License" or "Rent Game" for games with DRM. "Buy game" where you own your digital copy and can do whatever you want with it.

[–] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 18 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (3 children)

"Buy game" where you own your digital copy and can do whatever you want with it.

We ain't ever seein' that one.

[–] mnemonicmonkeys@sh.itjust.works 21 points 1 day ago (10 children)

GOG

load more comments (10 replies)

[–] parpol@programming.dev 6 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Probably not. Still "buy licence" at least gives us more transparency.

load more comments (1 replies)

[–] iAmTheTot@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 days ago

How would it work, anyway?

load more comments (1 replies)

[–] SomeGuy69@lemmy.world 33 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Next: make it so games can't suddenly lose their music license. This is so incredible annoying. I know it's depending on what the publishers negotiated, but it shouldn't be possible to suddenly patch out soundtracks because of a license expire.

[–] ampersandrew@lemmy.world 14 points 1 day ago

Seriously. If I bought GTA before those licenses expired, my download should always have them, even if newer ones do not (which, to be clear, still sucks that that's acceptable).

[–] HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

require games to buy perpetual licenses for the music?

[–] Adalast@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Other way around. Require sales of licenses to games to be perpetual. The way you phrased it means that the license holders can charge way more.

load more comments (1 replies)

[–] NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I'd never even heard of this before. Wtf

load more comments (2 replies)

[–] corroded@lemmy.world 21 points 2 days ago (2 children)

If you're not receiving physical media, and you're not saving a copy to local storage, then you're not buying anything. You're renting it.

[–] ampersandrew@lemmy.world 36 points 2 days ago

That's not even the best metric. You save Destiny 2 to local storage, but you still don't own that either.

[–] Mango@lemmy.world 14 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Let's just face it. There isn't ever going to be a publishing company that doesn't fuck us however they can for an extra dime. Companies are machines full of people deciding whatever they have to for money.

There also will never be a way they can keep us from just copying files.

[–] ampersandrew@lemmy.world 7 points 1 day ago (5 children)

They've already invented ways to keep us from just copying files: in that they don't provide us with all of the files in a lot of cases anymore.

load more comments (5 replies)

[–] otp@sh.itjust.works 11 points 2 days ago (4 children)

Do they need "buy" or "purchase"? All they need is "pay", and nobody would notice.

load more comments (4 replies)

[–] buzz86us@lemmy.world 7 points 1 day ago

Just let me buy a license then download it wherever I want

load more comments