this post was submitted on 01 Sep 2024
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Please also check out vegantheoryclub.org for a great set of well-run communities for vegan news, cooking, gardening, and art. It is not federated with LW, but it is a nice, cozy, all-in-one space for vegans.


We ask that the you have an understanding on what veganism is before engaging in this community.

If you think you have been banned erroneously, please get in contact with one of the other mods for appeals.

Moderator reports may not federate properly and may delay moderator action. Please DM an active mod if an abusive comment remains after reporting it.


Welcome

Welcome to c/vegan@lemmy.world. Broadly, this community is a place to discuss veganism. Discussion on intersectional topics related to the animal rights movement are also encouraged.

What is Veganism?

'Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals ...'

— abridged definition from The Vegan Society

Rules

The rules are subject to change, especially upon community feedback.

  1. Discrimination is not tolerated. This includes speciesism.
  2. Topics not relating to veganism are subject to removal.
  3. Posts are to be as accessible as practicable:
    • pictures of text require alt-text;
    • paywalled articles must have an accessible non-paywalled link.
  4. Content warnings are required for triggering content.
  5. Bad-faith carnist rhetoric & anti-veganism are not allowed, as this is not a space to debate the merits of veganism. Anyone is welcome here, however, and so good-faith efforts to ask questions about veganism may be given their own weekly stickied post in the future (see current stickied discussion).
    • before jumping into the community, we encourage you to read examples of common fallacies here.
    • if you're asking questions about veganism, be mindful that the person on the other end is trying to be helpful by answering you and treat them with at least as much respect as they give you.
  6. Misinformation, particularly that which is dangerous or has malicious intent, is subject to removal.

Resources on Veganism

A compilation of many vegan resources/sites in a Google spreadsheet:

Here are some documentaries that are recommended to watch if planning to or have recently become vegan:

Vegan Fediverse

Lemmy: vegantheoryclub.org

Mastodon: veganism.social

Other Vegan Communities

General Vegan Comms

!vegan@lemmy.ml

!vegan@hexbear.net

!vegan@vegantheoryclub.org

!vegan@slrpnk.net

Circlejerk Comms

!vegancirclejerk@lemmy.ml

Vegan Food / Cooking

!homecooks@vegantheoryclub.org

!veganrecipes@sh.itjust.works

!recipes@vegantheoryclub.org

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

Hi all, I'm one of the mods that apparently caused lemmy.world to melt down for two weeks. It's a lovely sunny Sunday arvo, and I'd much rather go catch the last rays of sun in my garden than write about mod drama. Alas, I must have sinned in a past life.

Today the lemmy.world admins made a follow up post about the incident where the admin Rooki interfered with moderation of this community in a way which was determined to be against lemmy.world TOS and factually incorrect. Throughout this incident there has been no communication with me, nor to my knowledge any of of the other moderators of this community. Rooki quitely undid his actions and edited his post to admit fault however there was no public acknowledgement of this from him. In fact I wasn't even told I was reinstated as a mod which is quite funny.

The lemmy.world admins' response appears more focused on managing their own reputations and justifying similar actions in the future than providing a good environment for vegans, and other similarly maligned groups. Their statements about wanting to handle misinformation and overreach better in the future ring a bit hollow when they won't take actions to address the anti-vegan circlejerks under their update posts which abound with misinformation and disinformation.

The legalese written basically allows for the same thing to happen, and that if it does the admin decision is to stand while moderators have to quietly resolve the conflict at the admins' leisure. Presumably with a similarly weak public apology and barely visible record correction after the fact.

This community already has a fairly high moderation burden, with many users coming here in bad faith and getting outraged when they are told to take it elsewhere.

I have spoken with /u/neurospice@lemmy.dbzer0.com and /u/Beaver@lemmy.ca and we are of the opinion that given the lack of assurance that admins with an axe to grind wont interfere in the future this is no longer a space we are interested in moderating and can't in good faith recommend as a place to host a vegan community. Instead we would recommend that users come to !vegan@vegantheoryclub.org (note, not federated with .world, make a local account), additionally !vegan@lemmy.ml, !vegan@slrpnk.net, and !vegan@hexbear.net are well moderated and run.

Mods are just glorified internet janitors though, so if any current mods or users want to take over the responsibility of primary management from /u/neurospice@lemmy.dbzer0.com they are welcome to do so and should get in touch. Otherwise I think the consensus is to close this community for now.

Finally I'd just like to express gratitude for the great effort put in by the users here. In particular /u/Rose@lemmy.world you are a bloody champion for trying to get a better outcome here, we all appreciate it immensely.

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[–] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 34 points 2 weeks ago (10 children)

I tried to stem the disinfo in the other ootl thread, but the amount of of rage bait and general vegan hate was off the scale. Really disappointing showing by lemmings.

See you on the flipside.

[–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 18 points 2 weeks ago

It was quite the "here we go again with the vegans" post. Just a ton of redditors using it as a space to whine about veganism as usual.

[–] neurospice@lemmy.dbzer0.com 14 points 2 weeks ago

Thank you. I saw you in the meme post getting torn to shreds. I couldn't believe how upset everybody got in spite of how tame your comments were

[–] 5714@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 2 weeks ago

Thank you. That argument with PugJ was hurtful to see.

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[–] Rose@lemmy.world 20 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Thanks for the shoutout! The power move was a clear violation on the side of Rooki. Words and other fluff aside, the new rule additions are the best indication of not only the lack of change but also doubling down on Rooki's original position, as described in further detail in my recent comments.

Once I've made the last comments and it's been a few days since the Lemmy.World announcements, I will fully migrate to lemmy.zip because of this incident, so going to my user page on here should make it easy for anyone curious about the events to get a much clearer picture.

[–] Blaze@feddit.org 8 points 2 weeks ago

lemmy.zip

Good choice!

[–] naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 2 weeks ago

You are a saint <3 seriously thank you.

[–] zero_spelled_with_an_ecks@programming.dev 13 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Thanks for all you've contributed. I hope the other communities will be under a less constant barrage of people coming in bad faith.

[–] naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

My most drastic mod measure I've taken @vtc is gently explaining to a user that some stuff about their posts were a bit speciest.

World seems to have an anonymously high proportion of users who just browse all and post without sensitivity to community and rules. I strongly recommend moving to an instance that doesn't federate with them just personally.

[–] zero_spelled_with_an_ecks@programming.dev 8 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Yeah, after I blocked the .ml instances, all of the problematic users I've noticed have been world. Might just be from the sheer number, but it certainly does get old.

[–] Blaze@feddit.org 8 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

A third of the total LW users, no surprises there are a few bad apples

[–] Beaver@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 weeks ago

Haha that matches this statistic:

The majority of people will score fairly low on the dark triad, but about a third will have elevated levels significantly above average. The majority of people with these elevated dark traits are unlikely to be criminals, although they may be unpleasant to be around. “These are people who probably have quite high self-confidence, are quite bolshy, quite assertive; people who get their way,” says Heym. “They might not be the friendliest people and they do things that are good for their own goals even if that means overstepping others.”

[–] Blaze@feddit.org 7 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I strongly recommend moving to an instance that doesn’t federate with them just personally.

The issue is that out of the 100 most active communities, 57 are on LW. Content is already scarse, without LW it's really quiet

[–] naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Multiple accounts? I have like 7

[–] veganpizza69@lemmy.world 6 points 2 weeks ago

Yes. Just avoid voting for yourself, it's rude.

[–] Blaze@feddit.org 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I do too, but most of the users probably stick to one as it's more practical

[–] naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 2 weeks ago

I'm a boomer with insane takes like "having an account per forum is normal" and "handing over your entire digital identity to an untrusted third party is ridiculous" but I know we're dying out.

[–] Blaze@feddit.org 13 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Hello,

I followed the situation from afar, good luck with !vegan@vegantheoryclub.org !

note, not federated with .world, make a local account)

Having a look at the instances page, it seems you defederated, which makes sense based on the current events. Lemm.ee and SJW still seem federated, so hopefully this might give an incentive to people to migrate from LW to other instances and spread Lemmy users a bit more.

[–] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 13 points 2 weeks ago

Dbzer0 as well

[–] TWeaK@lemm.ee 10 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Lol lemmy.world is a u/spez run reddit wannabe, apparently. There doesn't seem to be much real integrity there.

I feel like most of the mods on c/vegan understand that, which is why their accounts are with other instances.

However, going to hexbear and .ml are probably mistakes. That's a step down from .world, there are better instances out there. Hint hint.

[–] naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com 15 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

vegantheoryclub.org is vegan run.

Also personally I've had issues with precisely one user on hexbear (the one who accused me of being db0 in disguise lol) and none from ml. I don't always agree politically, but that's true for every lemmy instance.

Tbh I have difficulty understanding the drama around them. Hexbear in particular is fantastic for vegans (vtc aside) as their COC specifically requires certain vegan-forward stances, which they recognise as part of a liberation struggle.

[–] TWeaK@lemm.ee 20 points 2 weeks ago

Hexbear is fine until you openly disagree with them. When you do that you get banned for vexatious reasons.

Hexbear is also an oxymoron in itself, supporting Putin's Russia while also claiming to support LGBTQ+ rights. Frankly, it's a bit of a honeypot.

lemm.ee is lovely, meanwhile :D Federated with almost everyone, no bullshit, and an admin developer who knows his stuff and supported other instance admins when the shit hit their fans (meanwhile his instance was already immune).

Also, Estonia gained its liberation from the Soviet Union literally by singing.

[–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

one user on hexbear (the one who accused me of being db0 in disguise lol)

omg. if anyone had any idea what my pre-account-creation exchange with db0 was about, and how you and I have subsequently interacted...

I try to stay out of explicitly vegan spaces, which I think was part of what I promised them when I was granted and account, but it is hilarious to think that you are db0.

[–] naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Yeah, I'm way too cool.

you know this might be my last chance to ban you and I'm kinda tempted to. Just one act of pure mod abuse, just for myself. as a treat.

[–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation ... and cruelty

[–] naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 2 weeks ago

I am hoist on mine own petard.

[–] illi@lemm.ee 5 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

So happy .world had serious tech issues sometime after the exodus. I had my first account there, it was a bit of pain to move as I used it for a little, but totally worth it in the long run it seems

[–] TWeaK@lemm.ee 7 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

They did, and then the lemm.ee dev came to their rescue to tell them how they should have set things up (like he did) :D

And these days it's trivially easy to move accounts between instances.

[–] illi@lemm.ee 3 points 2 weeks ago

It is these days. A year ago I had to subscribe to everything manually again.

[–] recursive_recursion@programming.dev 9 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (2 children)

Creating a new community over at !vegan@vegantheoryclub.org and !vegan@slrpnk.net seems good however I would like to make recommendations against lemmy.ml and hexbear.net as they are known to host tankies and are heavily biased against anti-CCP and Russian(Putin) dissidents.

  • It seems very paradoxical to me; with the development of decentralized forums I assumed that the admins and mods would be against dictatorships but I digress

May I perhaps suggest mander.xyz and or sopuli.xyz as better alternatives?

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[–] boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net 8 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

The Solarpunk guys have made a post including info about the situation here

https://slrpnk.net/post/12925536

!vegan@slrpnk.net could be the alternative community

[–] Blaze@feddit.org 9 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)
[–] boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)
[–] Blaze@feddit.org 2 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

You need some time to adapt for sure

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[–] neurospice@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 2 weeks ago

I am the vegan extremist who banned Rooki and am the catalyst of this. The amount of shit you get for volunteering for a job no-one wants to do fucking sucks. I really appreciate the gratitude that's expressed from bloodmouths especially /s

Lemmy seems to harbor more resentment towards vegans than Reddit does, which is truly an incredible feat. Reactionaries, carnist apologists, debatemebros, are in no short order here, and have been circlejerking about this for two weeks now. An outstanding advertisement for places like vegantheoryclub.org, completely free from carnist vitriol.

I'm sorry to the vegans that have been affected by this. I tried to make this place a vegan place, but it is apparent that the powers that be are in opposition to this. Thanks for putting your trust in me, and thanks for the other moderators here <3

Be kind to all Earthlings.

[–] blindbunny@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 weeks ago

Honestly I was hoping y'all would take this approach. As I said in my comments over there. LW truly is reddit

[–] TheTechnician27@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

Hi, naeva. Would you and Hamid consider re-federating with World? It's not just that I don't want to and probably wouldn't juggle multiple accounts just for a couple communities, but moreso that segregating the main vegan sub away from the biggest instance by an order of magnitude means that it can't be seen by any of the actual good-faith LW users.

If you did, I would volunteer to be a moderator, although I understand that doesn't nearly offset the induced moderation burden. I'd volunteer to moderate here on the LW instance, but especially with the sort of undue pressure from administration being imposed on it combined with being on my own, I'm not sure that I could do it effectively.

[–] naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I don't run vtc, and I think Hamid is probably more likely to eat his own teeth than refederate.

DBzero is federated, and a widely federated instance. The admin has a sense of humour at least so you could do worse than signing up there if you want to see world stuff.

[–] TheTechnician27@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

In that case, if you're willing to reopen the LW community here, I'd moderate it. I'm sure it'd be difficult at first. I wouldn't ask you to do anything further here.

[–] naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 week ago

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law

[–] Blaze@feddit.org 4 points 1 week ago

I’d volunteer to moderate here on the LW instance,

That's nice of you, please note that moderation only completely works from the instance the community is hosted on. Reports are currently not propagated for instance

[–] Ilovethebomb@lemm.ee 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

additionally !vegan@lemmy.ml, !vegan@slrpnk.net, and !vegan@hexbear.net are well moderated and run.

Hexbear is a raging dumpster fire, ML is a smouldering dumpster fire, and your first recommendation isn't federated with the largest Lemmy instance. Not a good sign at all.

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