this post was submitted on 07 Aug 2024
89 points (84.0% liked)

World News

38977 readers
3492 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.


Lemmy World Partners

News !news@lemmy.world

Politics !politics@lemmy.world

World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world


Recommendations

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

The play is not about Israel but instead tells the story of a Jewish man preserving his family’s traditions in a village in imperial Russia at the turn of the 20th century. The performance on Monday went ahead as planned after the protest at the cafe.

“This is a performance of Fiddler on the Roof,” they wrote alongside footage of the protesters. “So, if you’re busy condemning racist demonstrations, but not this, & you don’t think they should be prosecuted, stop preening yourself. You’re happy with racism – it’s only the target that you worry about.”

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] catloaf@lemm.ee 24 points 3 months ago (4 children)

The article doesn't have any statements from the protestors about why they were protesting there. Seems like a glaringly obvious omission.

[–] gAlienLifeform@lemmy.world 20 points 3 months ago

Also, it's not exactly clear where "there" even was

A video shared on social media shows protesters holding Palestinian flags and accusing theatregoers at a cafe next to Regent’s Park Open Air Theatre of “Zionism”.

...

A spokesperson for Regent’s Park Open Air Theatre said: “The videos that emerged on social media were exchanges that did not take place at Regent’s Park Open Air Theatre. Last night’s performance went ahead as planned.”

Was this demonstration actually in response to the play performance or did they just happen to be near each other?

[–] EndlessApollo@lemmy.world 5 points 3 months ago

I was noticing that, and a suspicious lack of reason for why this play would be singled out. Those kinds of omission make this super sketchy imo, it often indicates not that the protestors had no point or were antisemitic, but that they had a point and the article is withholding it to paint them as antisemites. Hopefully there are first hand sources or less biased news articles that explain it

[–] stoly@lemmy.world 3 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Also, Palestinians are Semites...

[–] gedaliyah@lemmy.world 4 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

That's not what antisemitism means. This is like thinking that antipasto means someone is opposed to Pasto. Two different words.

[–] stoly@lemmy.world 3 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (24 children)

Not a good example. Anti = before, pasto = meal. Antipasto is what you eat before the main dish. Whether people have meant antisemitism to mean specifically Jewish persons (a bad reading), the fact remains that Arabs are Semites and Palestinians are Arabs.

load more comments (24 replies)
[–] Syntha@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 months ago

How is that relevant?

[–] TheObviousSolution@lemm.ee 2 points 2 months ago

Because the play involved Jewish protagonists even though it had nothing to do with Israel or Palestine? That's the point.

Pro-Palestinian protests are justified, but when they do things like this or things like defacing the statue of Anne Frank, they are clearly being appropriated by those who say Zionism so they can avoid the antisemitism label.

[–] assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world 22 points 2 months ago

There's a second layer of heavy irony here when you look at what led to the Zionist movement in the first place.

Jewish persecution across Europe had always been a thing, but following the Russian revolution, there were pogroms of Jews, who were scapegoated by Tsar supporters as responsible for the revolution.

This was the straw that broke the camel's back. It led a prominent Jewish thinker/author to conclude that Jews would never have safety or security unless they had their own country. Simultaneously, Jewish culture was undergoing changes and enlightenment at the time. All of this taken together is what gave rise to a powerful Zionist movement.

Fiddler of the Roof is the last thing anyone should protest, because preserving Jewish culture in Russia and hostilities from Russia towards it are what led to Israel in the first place!

[–] TheObviousSolution@lemm.ee 18 points 2 months ago (3 children)

I think it would be disingenuous to claim there aren't a lot of antisemites involved in Pro-Palestinian protests.

[–] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 9 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Depends how you quantify "a lot". More then none, much less than a majority.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] gedaliyah@lemmy.world 7 points 2 months ago (1 children)

The challenge with the left is that any attempt to call out that antisemitism or those individuals is seen as an attempt to undermine the entire movement.

I would love to see a free and safe Palestine alongside a free and safe Israel. Some will accuse me of being hateful or at least delusional for wishing for peaceful co-existence.

[–] Mrkawfee@lemmy.world 5 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

The problem is (until recently) Zionists used soothing words about a two state solution while building illegal settlements in the West Bank and enforcing a brutal apartheid.

The only solution is one state with equal rights for all. But that is the one solution no one in the West is talking about because it goes against the ethno state's raison d'etre.

[–] Sarmyth@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

If Isreal gets it's way, it'll be 1 state, but we won't like how that sausage gets made.

[–] WanderingVentra@lemm.ee 3 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Yup. The important part of that previous poster's statement is with equal rights for all. Israel wants one-state but not that part, which is basically what they have now.

[–] sandbox@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago

The real solution is a no-state solution.

[–] Mrkawfee@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

It would be disingenuous to claim that antisemitism isn't being weaponised by Zionists and their allies to muzzle free speech.

[–] TheObviousSolution@lemm.ee 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Both are true, so why do you seem to suggest they are mutually exclusive?

[–] Mrkawfee@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Because only one of those is given currency by Corporate media.

[–] TheObviousSolution@lemm.ee 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

My definition of truth tries to be objective, not subjective to wanting to dismiss something because Corporate media pushes it.

[–] Mrkawfee@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago

How many articles have you seen from mainstream media suggesting that anti semitism accusations are just cover for silencing Pro Palestinian voices?

Now compare that to the number of articles saying that Palestinians supporters in the West are Hamas supporters, hate marches, anti semites and Iranian backed.

The narrative is hard to miss once you spot it.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 13 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I don't know whether or not they're antisemitic, but they do need to read the fucking room.

[–] Altofaltception@lemmy.world 22 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

It is absolutely antisemitic. Fiddler on the Roof is about the Jewish culture and has nothing to do with Zionism or Israel.

This would be like protesting against Saudi Arabia actions at an Eid festival.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 22 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I'm Jewish (I'm even a mod in our Jewish community here on lemmy.world) and I am very sensitive to antisemitism, but there is also a lot of ignorance which you can call a form of soft bigotry if you like, but it does not rise to something I would consider antisemitism.

It could very well be that this was a case of a bunch of ignorant people.

Someone else suggested (based on the article itself) that it may have been coincidental and the protest just happened to be in the vicinity of the musical.

Or they were a bunch of antisemites.

I don't feel like I have enough information to judge.

[–] yesman@lemmy.world 6 points 3 months ago (1 children)

While we're all tip-toeing around the criticize Israel minefield, remember that the Zionists don't pay any attention to these rules. They'll couch Israeli policy in Judaism as it suits them. And they'll raise antisemitism as a bludgeon and the Shoah as a shield.

It's a big disadvantage when only one side is nervous about appearing as a racist monster while the other is breaking new ground in bigotry and monstrosity.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 6 points 3 months ago

Who is tip-toeing around the criticize Israel minefield? Criticize Israel all you like, just read the fucking room when you do it.

[–] Naich@lemmings.world 9 points 3 months ago

That's pretty stupid.

[–] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 2 months ago

Morons. I support the other pro-Palestinian protests.

load more comments
view more: next ›