Let me preface by saying, I would love to hear counter points and am fully open to the fact that I could be wrong and totally out of touch. I just want to have some dialogue around something that’s been bothering me in the fediverse.

More and more often I keep hearing people refer to “normies”. I think by referring to other people as “normies”, whether you intend to or not, you inadvertently gatekeep and create an exclusive environment rather than an inclusive one in the fediverse.

If I was not that familiar with the fediverse and decided to check it out and the first thing I read was a comment about “normies”, I would quite honestly be very put off. It totally has a negative connotation and doesn’t even encapsulate any one group. I just read a comment about someone grouping a racist uncle and funny friend into the same category of normie because they aren’t up to date on the fediverse or super tech savvy or whatever.

I don’t want to see any Meta bs in the fediverse. I barely want to see half of the stuff from Reddit in the fediverse. I don’t want to see the same echo chamber I do everywhere else.

I do want to see more users and more perspectives and a larger user base though. I want to see kindness and compassion. I want to talk to people about topics they are interested in. I want to have relevant discussions without it dissolving into some commentary on some unrelated hot topic thing.

I think calling people normies creates a more toxic, exclusive place which I personally came here to avoid.

Just my two cents! I know for most people using the term it isn’t meant to be malicious, but I think it comes off that way.

Love to hear all of your thoughts.

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[–] RxBrad@lemmy.world 80 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)

Or....

"Normie" shows a hint of self awareness that the people on this platform aren't representative of the general public. We're a bunch of tech weirdos.

We're the "abnormies".

[–] pjhenry1216@kbin.social 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Pretending there isn't any condescension toward the "normies" when using the term is blatantly exhibiting the exact behavior the OP referenced. It's not how inclusivity works in a community at all. It alienates anyone that isn't already a part of it.

[–] RxBrad@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Why? Because I don't expect a person who's not entrenched in a specific hobby to understand the ins-and-outs of that hobby?

It's not condescension. It's setting reasonable expectations.

[–] quasi_moto@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

No of course it's reasonable that they wouldn't understand the ins and outs. The op and commenter you're replying to are talking about the connotation of the word, not the fact that a hobbyist understands their hobby.

Take the term Trekkie for example -- people who are into star trek can become Trekkies which symbolizes that they've joined a community. That term can be used to mean that two people both belong to a community (i.e., "we're Trekkies") or it can be used to refer negatively to people in that community by those who aren't in it (i.e., "Trekkies smell bad").

There are (at least) two things happening here that people are picking up on. One is that context matters, and the way that the term normie is often used is not a positive one. I've personally never seen anyone refer to themself proudly as a normie, have you? And the other is that we're referring to normies, a group we ostensibly don't belong to, as a homogeneous blob which is obviously not accurate.

I doubt anyone's feelings are especially hurt if they're called a normie, but that doesn't mean it isn't a dismissive and usually negatively valenced term used to refer to a massive and diverse group of people.

[–] RxBrad@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

To me, normie just signifies a person outside a given niche hobby.

I'm into having a Plex server in my basement. People not into that are normies in a conversation about having a Plex server. I don't expect them to know how to setup QuickSync hardware encoding in a Plex Docker container.

I don't like anime. To people who like anime, I'm the normie. I think Trunks is just a really cool Mastodon client. I only vaguely know it's also a Dragonball character. If you expect me to know more than this, you're going to be disappointed.

There's no judgment involved.

[–] quasi_moto@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I agree the way you're using it doesn't sound negative. But I don't think that's a representative use of this term. Take a look at the top few entries on urban dictionary, they don't seem very judgement free to me...

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Normie

The point of this post is that even if you don't mean it in the way that urban dictionary describes it, that's how some people will interpret it.

[–] pjhenry1216@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago

I mean, read even just half the comments on just one page of comments here and you should see that it's extremely common to not use the word in the manner you're stating. We're not talking about that nor is the poster.

[–] grady77@kbin.social 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I guess that’s something I didn’t consider. I kind of feel like that is still creating an us vs them mentality though…

[–] DmMacniel@feddit.de 18 points 1 year ago (20 children)

But that's pretty much what a group of people is? The people who are inside the group and those that are outside. What is the problem with this?

[–] pjhenry1216@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago

This is absolutely not how you approaching communities. They literally said it creates an Us vs them mentality and you claim that as a positive? Groups are not about us vs them. At all. Nor is it how you build communities. That's how you create echo chambers and cliques and lead to your own downfall as a community.

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[–] sab@kbin.social 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

There's a hint of elitism to it though, at least as it's commonly used.

I saw a comment the other day that referred to Instagram users as "people you wouldn't want to associate yourself with". I don't know who these people think normal people are.

[–] s4if@lemmy.my.id 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think it is more self-deprecation than elitism as (in my image) normies tend to have more friends and healier relationship and hobbies.

[–] Ilikecheese@vlemmy.net 8 points 1 year ago

I always hated the stereotype that Reddit was full of nothing but loser virgins trapped in their mom’s basement who had no friends and no chance of a fulfilling life.

I mean, sure there are a lot of people there (and here) that probably fit most, if not all of that stereotype, but the constant need to point out what losers we all are is problematic in so many ways. Namely that some of us do actually have friends, hobbies, and lives, but still can relate to the overall vibe of being a bit of a weirdo or a loner or whatever, but also it has a tendency to create this barrel of crabs type mental barrier where it just feels like the constant reminders of “if this is all I am, this is all I will ever be” keeps presenting itself. It’s tiring and is the reason why I always kept all the self-insulting subs like me_irl on my block list.

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[–] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Many of us are also not nuerotypical. Another word for typical is normal.

[–] Ilikecheese@vlemmy.net 5 points 1 year ago

Many is not all. And by creating an us vs them mentality where I’m “us” for the most part, but not for the whole part, there’s situations where the need to choose is being presented. It’s gatekeeping for the sake of gatekeeping, and really isn’t part of a healthy community of people.

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[–] fubo@lemmy.world 39 points 1 year ago (5 children)

A slur always tells you more about the person who uses it than about the person they're referring to.

[–] 001100010010@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 1 year ago (4 children)

How about "I hate Terfs"? What does that make me?

[–] nyar@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago (3 children)

TERF isn't a slur, it's an accurate descriptor.

Terfs are trans exclusionary. Terfs are on the borders of feminist thought, making them radical (and not in the cool way).

They only want it to be a slur so they aren't accurately described as what they are.

[–] nuzzlerat@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Actually I think it is quite a stretch to call them feminists in any way. 99% of the time they ally with the far right and many of their leaders advocate against things like contraception and healthcare for women

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[–] 70ms@lemmy.sdf.org 4 points 1 year ago

It makes you an awesome ally. 👍

[–] fubo@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

There's a specific group of people who readily use the word "TERF", and you're clearly identifying yourself as in that group. However, I've seen folks use the word "TERF" to refer even to people who aren't Fs at all, and certainly not RFs. JK Rowling may identify as a feminist, but she's not a "radical" anything. So yeah, I think using "TERF" does more clearly identify the position of the speaker than the person so described.

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[–] sangle_of_flame@lemmy.world 26 points 1 year ago (3 children)

nah, you're right

the term always gives me images of channer culture; like it reminds me when the internet as a whole thought that 4chan and its ilk were cool and elite for being shitty for "lulz"

it needs to be retired

[–] finthechat@kbin.social 6 points 1 year ago

That's where it came from. Back in the day when everyone on 4chan was some type of "fag":

-Newfag - new users
-Oldfag - old users
-Normalfag - normally-adjusted human being not on teh interwebz, later became shortened to "normie"

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[–] hutchmcnugget@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago (7 children)

I have seen the word normie used in almost exclusively sarcastic or tongue in cheek contexts.

[–] Ilikecheese@vlemmy.net 7 points 1 year ago

The internet has a way of taking things that are used sarcastically and removing every bit of irony. The Flat Earth Society, PCMR, and The Donald subreddit all started out as making fun of the people that are now 100% unironically part of very thriving (and toxic to differing levels) communities.

I think that will almost certainly happen to the word normie, if it hasn’t already.

[–] errata@lemm.ee 5 points 1 year ago

I guess that's how it's used in recent years, but it was definitely 4chan speak in the past and it was definitely pejorative. I still associate it with channers and incels. I recognize that the term has ironically been taken over by the "normies" themselves but that inevitably happens to all memes and slang.

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[–] zeppo@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

To me it means “not a computer dork”. I always interpreted it as somewhat self-deprecating.

[–] 13esq@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Yh, it's meant to be ironic.

Fucking normies, REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!

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[–] BaldManGoomba@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

Normies just means people who aren't in the in group and to me means we are the weird ones, exclusive group or have uncommon interests or knowledge.

It is important to be self aware that in the context of the fediverse and meme culture things you are use to are weird, different, and sometimes confusing. Perfect example has been the beans and the 3 day poop thing. Normal people don't get and will think it is weird if they know nothing about the trend. Another example is I am a rock climber if I reference a jug or a sloper it means nothing to normies or people unaware of the lingo. So a jug joke isn't something other people get

[–] BURN@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think lots of people who use “normie” unironically are creating an us vs them mentality. It’s not malicious, it’s often how they see the world. People who are “abnormal” are often othered in the world and pushed away. This is a way for others to take back being the “out” group in a little way that makes you feel less out of place.

I’m guilty of it in other facets of my life.

[–] 13esq@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

I've never seen it used unironically, but maybe I'm in different communities.

[–] problematicconsumer@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

Like everything else context matters

[–] GregorGizeh@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

I really dislike that term, it makes me cringe to be considered part of a group that uses it unironically. That’s 4chan speech, let’s keep it in that cesspool.

[–] Elkaki123@vlemmy.net 7 points 1 year ago (9 children)

I'm with you on this one, in a vacuum I don't really have a problem with the term "normie" but here it is completely being used as gatekeeping.

This whole meta controversy has really caused some brain rot, a lot of people talk about this place as if it's better because it "gatekeeps". They say they enjoy this place because it is niche and doesn't have the "below room temperature IQ posters" (actual quote I saw)

I don't like this attitude, I really don't like it. It is way to common on the internet, especially for hobby communities to have this attitude.

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[–] shy_bibliophile@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think that context is really important. I've mostly seen this term used by neurodivergent people when expressing frustration with not being understood by the general populace. Also, these conversations were usually in spaces created by and for neurodivergent people, so the use of normie to indicate everyone else makes sense to me. In that context, it always comes across as kind of self-deprecating to me, an acknowledgement that the person speaking isn't considered normal because of their condition.

Based on the context you've described, I'm not surprised you don't like the term. If that was were I first encountered it I wouldn't like it either.

[–] Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 1 year ago

This is the exact context I primarily see it and use it in, also in LGBTQ+ spaces as well.

The same kind of uses as well, usually used to refer to straight people or people less versed in the queer culture and terminology.

Using it outside of those spaces is hella cringe though.

[–] magic_lobster_party@kbin.social 4 points 1 year ago

I’ve always assumed that people who use “normie” in their language are probably teenagers with superiority complex.

[–] pjhenry1216@kbin.social 4 points 1 year ago (5 children)

If anyone reads this whole thread, the problem and lack of self awareness of the danger of this word becomes apparent. There are folks who say it means something entirely different than what you just said. It's clear this is a loaded word and you're making it clear that it is indeed an insult. Communities grow and your perspective isn't necessarily always the best. Growth is difficult and differing opinions aren't always bad. The issue is when people bring hate into it. Tolerance is important, but one can never tolerate intolerance.

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[–] Uriel238@lemmy.fmhy.ml 4 points 1 year ago

Normies don't exist. Like birds.

[–] eunuchkim@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I can't take anyone who uses "normie" seriously. The meme video plays in my head instantly, and I laugh at it.

I agree with the toxic use of it being dumb. Which is also why I can't take it seriously. But yeah, doesn't make it less infuriating or hurtful.

Also I've co-opted it into fun new ways like, "hetero-normies" and "neuro-normies" all as a joke

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