this post was submitted on 24 Jun 2023
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[–] JerkyIsSuperior@lemmy.world 41 points 1 year ago (2 children)

"Mercenaries and auxiliaries are useless and dangerous; and if one holds his state based on these arms, he will stand neither firm nor safe."

Niccolo Machiavelli - The Prince

[–] zeppo@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

"Windows are dangerous. Also, radioactive umbrellas" - zeppo, a Lemmy Member

[–] Pons_Aelius@kbin.social 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

A merc is loyal, until the last payment clears.

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[–] downpunxx@lemmy.world 40 points 1 year ago (5 children)

The Wagnerites also seized the buildings of the head office of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the FSB department, the administration of #Rostov and one of the police departments, according to local channels. Nobody in the city understands what's going on.

https://press.coop/@nexta_tv/110596856860216270

[–] andobando@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

Like watching Cobra attack the Decepticons.

[–] mookulator@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Can you explain the significance of these buildings?

Are they the head offices of those departments, or the offices that are in that city?

How powerful are these departments?

[–] Pons_Aelius@kbin.social 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Rostov is the admin centre of Rostov Oblast (state capital city). I would assume the main offices are in Moscow and these are the regional headquarters.

So while it is big if they have taken them it is not as big as if they had done so in Moscow.

[–] BananaTrifleViolin@kbin.social 14 points 1 year ago

The city is apparently the base for the Russian southern military district command which is key to the war efforts in Ukraine - according to the Institute for the Study of War via the Guardian

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[–] SquishyPandaDev@yiffit.net 30 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Holly shit this has been picked up by the BBC.

Remember, it doesn't matter if they succeed or not. The fact it has happened will terrify Putin.

[–] Arbiter@lemmy.world 25 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I feel like this might be on behalf of Putin.

Wagner has been pretty careful to call out everyone but Putin.

Feels like setting the stage for a claim that the war was orchestrated by rogue elements in the Russian military, giving an out to tuck tail and run and move toward easing sanctions.

[–] sudneo@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Judging from the address to the nation, this doesn't seem the case now.

The situation is still very confused.

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[–] Ertebolle@kbin.social 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Nah, this feels more like an "evil counsellors" situation - you don't want to take on the king directly, so you instead give him an out by saying that he's OK but he's been given bad advice. Which also means if you do take over you can keep him around as a figurehead who now listens to better advisers like yourself.

[–] Arbiter@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

True, it’ll be interesting to see what the hell happened once the dust settles.

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[–] i_simp_4_tedcruz@lemmy.world 26 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I would like to submit "Putin panics and nukes his own people to stop the advance" for my Bingo card.

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[–] lewis6991@lemmy.world 24 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This is not a "war", it is a "special military operation".

This is not a "coup", it is a "march for justice".

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[–] easeKItMAn@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago (2 children)
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[–] GONADS125@lemmy.world 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I welcome russian infighting. Hope it makes it easier for Ukraine to retake Crimea.

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[–] ghostnotes@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago (2 children)

If Kiev has been saving something up for a special occasion, this occasion is starting to look pretty special.

[–] elihu@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

I think this is a good time to continue what they've been doing, interfering with Russian logistics and pressing forward on the front lines.

They could make an attack on Russian territory (e.g. drone strikes against airbases, oilfields, bridges, or other suitable targets), but right now might be the right time to hold off on anything that might distract Russia and Wagner from fighting with each other. Nothing unifies squabbling factions quite like a serious external threat.

I wouldn't be surprised, though, if Ukraine ops to antagonize Russia as much as they can, while leaving Wagner mostly alone. That would also be a sensible strategy.

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[–] Antik@lemmy.ml 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Holy shit.

Things are getting real real.

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[–] lycanrising@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago (11 children)

my mind is so blown. i didn’t have wagner turning against russia on my bingo card

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[–] SpacemanZ@kbin.social 13 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Wagner switching sides was not on my bingo card

[–] Zamboniman@lemmy.ca 18 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

They didn't switch sides. They created a third side. A Mêlée à Trois.

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To be honest I thought Wagner and also the Chechen commanded forces would cause chaos in Russia after the war - Putin unleashed the genies from their bottles in his desperation. Both see themselves as successors to Putin should he fall, and civil war was on the cards but more likely a conflict between Wagner and the Chechen forces of some form. I agree - moving DURING the war with Ukraine - that is totally unexpected!

But they've not switched sides tbf - this seems to be the first steps in a civil war. And it shows just how broken Russia is. The question is, will Wagner step back from the precipice after exacting some sort of price out of the Russian state? Or is this a battle for survival and so unstoppable.

The really really worrying this is when things get unpredictable like this, there is no telling how things could escalate further. Look at WW1 - the death of Franz Ferdinand helped unleash chaos in a way no one could have forseen.

[–] Pons_Aelius@kbin.social 7 points 1 year ago

Mercs are always on their own side first and foremost.

Purchased loyalty always has an expiry date, usually about 6 hours after the last payment clears.

They are on the side that pays them or that they see the most profit from.

[–] ClassyDave@kbin.social 6 points 1 year ago

Feel like no one has had any matching bingo cards in the past few years.

[–] Yoz@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Can someone please explain what's going on ? I am out of the loop. I know Wagner was fighting for Russia but what happened now?

[–] certain_people@lemmy.world 27 points 1 year ago (6 children)

Everyone in Wagner was about to be conscripted into the regular Russian Army as the latest in an ongoing power struggle between Wagner's boss and the Russian MoD. So to avoid losing his private army, the boss has stepped up the power struggle to an attempted coup, basically.

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[–] UniquesNotUseful@lemmy.world 20 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The head of Wagner was unhappy with Russian military leaders and thought he'd take matters into his own hands as Putin was going to support him. Putin did not. Now there are 10,000 men heading to Moscow.

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[–] wheresyourshoe@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Things are escalating quickly in Russia.

[–] assembly@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

It’s just a special military coup operation, nothing more to see.

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[–] political_avacado@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

The Ukraine counter-offensive sure is effective.

[–] wet_squid@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

While it’s always great to watch enemies turning against each other (Boebert vs MTG!), let‘s not forget that Putin is a mad man with his finger on a nuclear button.

I wish the best for the people living there who will suffer the consequences of a dictator who gets pushed into a corner.

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[–] dangblingus@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

25,000 troops marching on Moscow. How many does the Kremlin have not already in Ukraine?

[–] Thepinyaroma@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

How many do they have not in Ukraine... Who are also willing to kill fellow Russians? If the average Russian military sentiment is, "Eh, let them through" this could be huge.

Plus a lot of the "Royal Guard" may be well-connected rich kids who are even less inclined to fight.

Way too soon to know for sure, but. 🍿

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[–] innkeeper@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

Ukrainian army called ...they need fresh supplies of popcorn...

[–] assassinatedbyCIA@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

More evidence as to why you don’t hire mercenaries. They are only loyal to the money. I hope the US is watching with their love of PMC’s.

[–] Double_A@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Especially if you send the mercenaries on a nonsense mission to die a pointless death...

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