You’re almost there, Biden.
Perhaps it might also be a good time to take a more discerning look at Elon Musk’s politics and his fleet of data delivering Teslas
this post was submitted on 29 Feb 2024
73 points (97.4% liked)
politics
19072 readers
6036 users here now
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
⬆️👆This guy gets it
AIER has a lot of garbage takes, but they're absolutely right about this, and how it will be used.
Phones are so much better for mass surveillance than cars.
Chinese chips in the cars can be designed to be hacked from afar to turn them into espionage machines.
And when you connect your phone to the onboard system, now your phone gets jacked.
It's nightmare fuel for security.
Bummer because we need more cheap EV's.
*nation-state chips
Saying that the good ol' America aren't doing the same is keeping your head in the sand.
*Big* Tech really falls into the devil you know vs the devil you don't. Their all shit sandwiches, take your pick or go hungry.
Not yelling at clouds, just being realistic.
About your connecting phones to cars, you'll have to allow perms as to what data is shared right? My 2011 VW has Android Auto, but no onboard Sim, how are VW making off with my data?
EDIT: Above between **, see below for further information.
Teslas were banned in areas of China for the same reasons as @Pretzilla@lemmy.world mentioned here. https://searx.tiekoetter.com/search?q=tesla+china+bans
To quote an article:
" Tesla cars face more entry bans in China as 'security concerns' accelerate. TAIPEI/BEIJING -- Tesla drivers in China are facing entry restrictions at more government-affiliated venues, including meeting halls and exhibition centers, due to data security concerns amid ongoing tensions between Washington and Beijing.24 Jan 2024 "
I have strong suspicions that it's not a threat to security due to cars sending back data, but rather that it undermines the electric car industry in the US. If telemetry was the issue, then block that, not the cars themselves.
I’m more concerned with Chinese cars possibly being built by forced labor and sold at less than cost.
This is not limited to just brands from China.
“ In July 2023, Human Rights Watch wrote to BYD (China), General Motors (US), Tesla (US), Toyota (Japan), and Volkswagen (Germany) to obtain information about their efforts to map their aluminum supply chains and eliminate exposure to forced labor in Xinjiang. “
https://www.hrw.org/report/2024/02/01/asleep-wheel/car-companies-complicity-forced-labor-china
Not really a reason to give China even more money.
TBH, I don't think that there's any way to get away from labor abuses at some point in the supply chain, no matter how good the intentions are once you get to the US. I don't just mean 'no ethical consumption under capitalism', but that GM et al. may be far enough removed from the companies that are mining bauxite that they really might not know what's happening. Or, I dunno, maybe the company that makes the tools that the miners depend on to do the job efficiently is made with slave labor. Obvs. they should try to avoid companies that have abusive practices, I'm just not sure if it's possible to ever get to 100%-human-rights-abuses-free production under a capitalist system.
Don't forget about all the lithium mining going on in Africa to create the massive batteries needed for these vehicles
You’re probably thinking of Cobalt. Which battery manufacturers have gotten away from for the reason you cite. Most Lithium comes from Australia.
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2023/01/chart-countries-produce-lithium-world/
https://insideevs.com/news/372133/91-of-lithium-three-countries/
Okay that was off the top of my head, but that doesn't mean lithium mining isn't harmful to both people and the planet, and that it won't result in more exploitation and abuse as time goes on and demand for batteries grows. The location and specific mineral being mined doesn't really matter. Human rights abuses arent the only thing to worry about, either. My sources focus on lithium, but just like coal mining and oil extraction; the lithium, cobalt, graphite, etc. mining that is necessary to support battery production is also extremely damaging to the environment.
https://www.dw.com/en/lithium-mining-in-africa-reveals-dark-side-of-green-energy/a-67413188
https://news.climate.columbia.edu/2023/01/18/the-paradox-of-lithium/
Bingo. A threat to national security == a threat to American industry titans. The article even states that non-Chinese EVs are required to use Chinese software in China. So pull an uno reverse on them, requiring foreign EVs to run domestic software here in the states. All this does is preserve the status quo for the heads of American industry and their shareholders.
EV adoption would be more wide spread here in the US if the damn things were affordable. As of now, they're presented as a luxury upgrade, or the environmentally responsible thing to do if you can afford it. You would still have the "Buy American®" crowd that will only go with the big 3 because patriotism, but it'll begin getting us on the right track and away from emissions. But nope, let's keep coddling our 100 year old auto industry that fails to innovate and keeps producing crap.
Not quite regarding security. It's not as simple as software. You can add a compromising software layer but you can't make it safe through software if the chips are soft.
The Chinese chips in the cars can be designed to be hacked from afar to turn them into espionage machines.
And when you connect your phone to the onboard system, now your phone gets jacked.
It's nightmare fuel for security.
Yes he says that in the article that that's a concern too. Concerns from US manufacturers and auto unions.
The measures stemmed from conversations with Detroit automakers, union autoworkers and the E.V. giant Tesla, which was recently supplanted by Chinese company BYD as the world’s biggest seller of electric cars.
“China is determined to dominate the future of the auto market, including by using unfair practices,” Mr. Biden said in a statement accompanying the announcement. “China’s policies could flood our market with its vehicles, posing risks to our national security. I’m not going to let that happen on my watch.”
Thursday’s action did not immediately impose new barriers on Chinese electric vehicles, which already face high tariffs and have not yet penetrated the growing American market for clean energy cars
I fine with preventing them from entering the market if they're using unfair labor practices that make it impossible for the Ford, GM, and Chrysler to compete. Claims of 'security risks' though, not so much.
Suspicions? It literally says that in the article:
But administration officials made clear it was the first step in what could be a wide range of policy responses meant to stop low-cost Chinese electric vehicles... from flooding the U.S. market and potentially driving domestic automakers out of business.
And by security we mean we need to secure General Motors shareholder's paychecks
I'd say it's more:
This is a security threat because it's not our tracking devices and our cops can't turn your vehicles off with a button.
Republicans: I love EVs now
Don't most republicans still hate China, or did some fox news pundit cut a fat check and mysteriously overnight they now think Pooh Bear's just the bee's knees? If anything I would think the muskrat would be thw one to change their minds what with his "anti-wokism" and whatnot
I think they all hate electric cars because they’re woke because they want to take away ICE but then have mental gymnastics to love Elon because he’s anti woke or something idk it’s hard keeping up with their shit
Not that they might spy, they are already spying.
https://inews.co.uk/news/hidden-chinese-tracking-device-government-car-national-security-2070152
Ain't just CCP, Bucko.
But administration officials made clear it was the first step in what could be a wide range of policy responses meant to stop low-cost Chinese electric vehicles... from flooding the U.S. market and potentially driving domestic automakers out of business.
As much as I do not enjoy being spied on, it seems they're just banning them on the presumption that they might spy.
On the other hand, it sure would be nice to be able to fucking afford an electric car. I give exactly zero fucks about the US automakers. If they're going to keep up insanely high prices, that's their problem.
So essentially we're restricting American's access to electric cars, under the guise of danger of a fear we have, in order to protect businesses from having to adapt. Glad, as usual, that the needs of the 1% are out weighing the needs of the entire fucking country. Again.
Has anyone figured out how to jailbreak a Tesla to install a FOSS OS?
Starlink and Teslas definetly are not threats..
A ton of people who know nothing about Chinese-made EVs are crying about issues they don't understand.
-
Chinese cars are not made to the safety standards required by the US.
-
Most Chinese car manufacturers are subsidized by the Chinese government, meaning they have their hands directly in the process.
-
The Chinese government would use the leverage of cheaper cars to destroy domestic US production with their cheap, garbage cars.
-
The Chinese government would load these cars with spyware and viruses to steal information from US companies, citizens, and US government employees.
China does not act in good faith and cannot be trusted.
Excellent points and well said.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
President Biden took steps on Thursday toward blocking internet-connected Chinese cars and trucks from entry to the American auto market, including electric vehicles, saying they posed risks to national security because their operating systems could send sensitive information to Beijing.
China has rapidly scaled up its production of electric vehicles in recent years, setting it on a collision course with Mr. Biden’s industrial policy efforts that seek to help American automakers dominate that market at home and abroad.
Administration officials are eyeing other steps to further impede imports of Chinese vehicles, which have already surged through European markets, as a result of low prices driven in part by significantly lower labor costs.
The Treasury Department has already proposed rules meant to limit China’s ability to supply materials for cars and trucks that qualify for a $7,500 electric vehicle tax credit included in Mr. Biden’s signature climate bill.
The Commerce Department investigation announced on Thursday grew from a series of conversations that administration officials had with automakers last fall, after the settlement of a United Automobile Workers strike during which Mr. Biden stood with the union and joined a picket line.
Biden aides began to grow concerned about what might happen if the United States did not impose similar restrictions on Chinese software, which administration officials say only a handful of cars in America run on today.
The original article contains 808 words, the summary contains 226 words. Saved 72%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Ahh so were gonna act like the real worry isn't domestic profit margins? Our roads, sidewalks, housing, neighborhood planning, and public transport (or lack thereof) are all fundamentally and deeply influenced by the automobile lobby to further their eonomic goals, but I'm sure it's all about privacy this time.
Chinese chips in the cars can be designed to be hacked from afar to turn them into espionage machines.
And when you connect your phone to the onboard system, now your phone gets jacked.
It's nightmare fuel for security.
ill buy one of these just to spite the US. fuck the us 'economy'. it doesnt exist for the common man.