Why TF are we renting military stuff from any 3rd party and essentially giving them control to override the military chain of command in the first place? I can't see this sitting well with anyone on the military side of this.
this post was submitted on 26 Feb 2024
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Presumably for the same reason that many US prisons are run by private individuals.
Outsourcing is the new thing, you don't have to take the blame and that's value for a lot of decision makers.
Also it always, ALWAYS results in a shittier product. Which is part of the reason why the world is fucked right now.
"We demand that you make us reliant on you for communications!"
JFC we spend a trillion bucks a year on the military. Why don't they have their own satellite internet already?
They do, it just not as fast or reliable. SpaceX put more into infrastructure whereas the Military just did bare minimum. Now that Starlink is so much better, it's cheaper and more efficient to rent from them than to continue building their own.
You know what would be even cheaper? Seizing Starlink as a national security asset.
They'd have to seize spaceX too, which is the reason that starlink is viable in the first place due to reduced costs in launching satellites.
And then if they do both, survive the brain drain while simultaneously surviving the onslaught of Republican attempts to defund it into oblivion, because that's what they do.
Yeah. I don't like those chances, nor do I like Musk essentially having power over foreign relations. Kinda lose lose, which is why we're in this shitty holding pattern atm.
Make NASA Great Again.
Cool thing to say because NASA was great once
You know what would be the cherry on top? Seize all of Musk's assets, and kick his ass out of the country. Along with the Murdochs.
Do you really want to give the government the power to do that, and then hand that power over to the military... I don't like Musk but I see so many worse scenarios with this being controlled by the military.
I see so many worse scenarios with this being controlled by the military.
Do you? Musk is already letting the Russian military use Starlink after refusing to let Ukraine us it in a major military operation.
What would be worse than giving aid to Russia?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/12/ukraine-accuses-russia-forces-using-elon-musk-starlink
This is crazy talk. Anybody can smuggle some terminals into their country. That doesn't mean they're being "helped". The US government would come down on SpaceX with unprecedented force if they violated sanctions like that
It's crazy talk? No. It's reality. Elon shut down Starlink for the Ukraine military with the excuse that they would have started World War 3. Meaning he has the power to shut down Starlink for the Russians as well.
I'd love to better understand your position. it seems like you think that Starlink is aware of who is using a terminal. how can Starlink differentiate between a Ukrainian and Russian user in the same general area? should Starlink randomly turn off user terminals it suspects? what if it accidentally turns off a Ukrainian one? billing is obv not a good indicator
I want to understand your thoughts a little more clearly on this
The area is Russian-occupied. Just turn off Starlink to that area. It's not hard.
Yes, that sucks for anyone stuck there. But this is war. You don't let the Russians have an advantage.
I don't think that's where the problem I'm raising is. Think about an active confrontation area where both sides have Starlink. How do you tell which to turn off in this case? Ideally Ukraine would be using starshield and then Starlink can be turned off entirely
Elon seems to have worked that out already.
https://apnews.com/article/spacex-ukraine-starlink-russia-air-force-fde93d9a69d7dbd1326022ecfdbc53c2
that doesn't seem to support your assertion. blocking terminals in a specific geographic location (crimea) doesn't explain how to tell apart two sides using terminals in the same geographic area
Blocking terminals in the same geographic location- such as Russian-controlled territory? Something he isn't doing?
On an active battlefront these territories aren't strictly defined or are changing quickly. With that methodology if Ukrainian advanced too quickly into what was previously Russian territory, bam - Starlink stops working. That seems undesirable
Sorry... you're saying that SpaceX can't just turn access on and off whenever they feel like it? Like my ISP can if I don't pay my bill?
Coordinating with the Ukrainian military would be enough to tell them what to turn on and off.
Starlink terminals in Ukraine didn't come from one source. some have been donated by orgs in the US and other countries, some the government, some SpaceX themselves. Ukraine almost certainly doesn't have full knowledge of all the Starlink terminals it possesses. This isn't an ideal environment
So you are again saying that Elon can't do what he already did- not allow access in certain locations.
No. What I'm saying is that due to the fast-shifting geographic nature of a battlefront, and the lack of organization in where the user terminals have come from: (A) Starlink would have a hard time keeping up with a precise map (and would be prone to errors, and would need exact operational data) (B) Ukraine doesn't completely KNOW what terminals are theirs
So a geographic location block would be a hindrance for Ukrainian troops when trying to advance, and potentially dangerous when Russians advance into Ukrainian territory. Boundaries would constantly need to be redrawn, requiring exact knowledge of what is happening. Which for obvious reasons should not be shared
A) The Ukrainian military says where the Russians are. Starlink access is turned off there.
B) The Ukrainian military says where the Russians are. Starlink access is turned off there.
Yet again, this is something Elon already did to the Ukrainians. So all you are doing is saying is that somehow it's impossible for Elon to stop Starlink from being used in a certain geographic area when, yet again, that already happened.
Honestly, it sounds like you think somehow the Russian military is just superior somehow.
I feel like you are fundamentally misunderstanding me. Battle lines are not static or cut and dry. Neither militaries KNOW exactly where the enemy is. It isn't that simple
Again, weird, since Ukraine knew exactly where Russia was and exactly where they were when Elon didn't allow them to access Starlink.
So, again, sounds to me like you're saying Russia has superior tech powers Ukraine does not.
I have no clue how you're coming to that conclusion. Starlink blanket blocked access from Crimea. Regardless of whether that was right or wrong, this doesn't prove that Starlink knows where Russian and Ukrainian troops, can track the battle line, and precisely turn off access based on that geographic area
Starlink blanket blocked access from Crimea.
Oh, so they can cut off areas Russia controls. Such as... oh... I don't know... Crimea?
Look, I don't know if you're being intentionally obtuse here, but not all areas are black and white. There is ambiguity in the world, particularly in battlefields. This feels a bit like a bad faith argument
I'm not being obtuse at all.
You have claimed this entire time that Elon Musk can somehow not shut down Starlink in areas where Russia already controls despite him doing exactly that thing. And no matter how many times I explain to you that he did exactly that thing including showing you a link where he did exactly that thing, you keep talking about battlefield movements and things like that when, again, we are talking about areas where Russia already controls, such as Crimea, where Elon did exactly that thing.
So if anyone is being obtuse, it's the person who keeps denying that something that already happened is possible.
Man, wtf. If Starlink is shut down in areas Russia already controls (it largely is), then what is the problem???
Starlink doesn't have fine control over what they can turn off, the world is separated into "cells". Starlink can't broadly turn off Starlink for ONLY Russians on the battle lines, it would affect Ukrainians too
The problem is it isn't. In fact, service was restored in Crimea.
The problem is that it should be and it can be. And it isn't because Elon is helping Putin out. I'm not sure why you don't understand that.
The government already has the power to do that.
If shit ever hit the fan, they could just invoke the DPA and force starlink to do exactly what they say.
that seems pretty stupid, should we also seize Amazon Kuiper when they start launching very soon?
yeah if they contract for military access and then dumbassidly refuse to give it.
Who do you think paid for SpaceX to launch all those satellites?
We do. They're all geostationary. So high latency and low bandwidth. Been in operation early 2000.
US military should build its own damn starlink as a matter of national security
Something something military industrial complex
You are correct, but if they try it'll just get diverted and used to feed the oligarchs.
I'd rather the U.S. government just seize all of the muskrat's businesses and nationalize them.
They are working on it, but it's slow to develop something like that.
Elon says no because he doesn't want to start a nuclear war. Which is why he will provide unlimited Starshield access to China.
lol, at least they're asking nicely. they can "collectivize" the equipment if they decide it's necessary
MARCH. IN. RIGHTS.
You never demand anything from an egotist, it's like our politicians have no idea...