this post was submitted on 22 Feb 2024
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Lemmy Apps

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As lemmy is a Foss and privacy respecting platform built on that ethics and morals it is only right the clients following those morals should be the most promoted and used. In the past you may have needed proprietry apps or tools but the need is no more as more foss apps and tools that can cater to everyones taste for all platforms are available now ( see the megathread ) there is no need to use proprietry apps which are privacy nightmares and tracks, pushes ads. etc and also if a proprietry app dev decides to collect data there is no wayto know or if they close development the app is gone but with foss someone will fork it . In the past this sub has allowed posts about proprietry apps and tools those posts will stay as it is and you can interact with it but posting any new one will lead to warning and then ban this decision was made as a community by conducting a poll.

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[–] Chozo@kbin.social 13 points 9 months ago (2 children)

The poll was improperly conducted and way too short for users to adequately find in time. This announcement is the first I'm hearing about this discussion or poll at all.

I think this might be jumping the gun. Also, it's poor form, imo, to change the focus of a community after it's been established. It would make more sense to create /c/lemmyfossapps or something similar. Taking a broadly-focused community and narrowing it down after people have already joined feels wrong.

Those are my two cents, since I never got a chance to respond to the poll, which allegedly already had a pretty narrow margin.

[–] Blaze@reddthat.com 7 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Definitely agree.

The poll has been restored in the meantime, but I'm not sure if that federates with Kbin

[–] neoman4426@kbin.social 1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

I can confirm from kbin to the degree it matters the original poll post is listed as "deleted_by_author" in my comments page, manually opening the URL for the page shows no comments, only the total number of favorites and reduces (possibly only the reduces from kbin specifically as the split shown is 71 up/2 down which is much different than the listed number of down in other comments)

[–] Blaze@reddthat.com 1 points 9 months ago

FYI, I raised the issue to the LW admins on !moderators@lemmy.world

[–] silas@programming.dev 8 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (6 children)

I still disagree with how this was executed:

  • Voting on a post is not a fair way to conduct a poll because (1) each instance shows a different amount of votes due to federation delays/issues, (2) some instances disable downvotes, and (3) downvoting decreases the visibility of posts in the main feed
  • The poll only ran for 20 hours and you didn’t state when it was going to close beforehand

I’m putting further pressure on this because:

  • The community seems to be divided pretty evenly on this proposal
  • This community is named lemmyapps, not fosslemmyapps
  • Some of us have privacy-respecting, non-tracking, no-ads apps that do not follow the FOSS model for good reasons
  • Your accounts are all less than 10 days old. Nothing necessarily wrong with that, but an introduction from our new moderator would have established a bit more credibility before making quick changes like this.

Here are some alternative solutions we could discuss:

  • Leave this community as-is and create a new community for free, open-source apps
  • Prioritize free, open-source apps in this community with megathreads or title requirements
  • If you’re still wanting to restrict this community to FOSS, do another poll that more accurately and fairly counts votes (using something like StrawPoll potentially).

Regardless, please take the time needed to do this fairly and consider both sides. Changing the topic of a 5k-member community based on a 50/50 or even 60/40 vote should not be taken lightly.

[–] Blaze@reddthat.com 5 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Well put.

appears you might be banned from an instance.

Do you have more details on this?

[–] silas@programming.dev 3 points 9 months ago

Oh, spoke too soon maybe, looks like it might have been accidental https://awful.systems/modlog?page=1&userId=3525901

I’ll remove that from my comment

[–] Blaze@reddthat.com 2 points 9 months ago

FYI, I raised the issue to the LW admins on !moderators@lemmy.world

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[–] Bezier@suppo.fi 7 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

The poll was definitely too short, I didn't even get a chance to see it despite being subbed.

[–] silas@programming.dev 7 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

That’s too bad, some of us simply want to retain ownership of what we create or are looking for a more sustainable model. I definitely see and respect the good intentions here though.

Also, in the interest of transparency, would you mind un-deleting the poll post and discussion post so others can see the discussions if they wish?

[–] THE_MASTERMIND@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I am sorry i when i delete things on lemmy i have a habit of over writing them as some clients still shows the deleted posts. So i have restored the post but the posts body is gone tge comments are there though

[–] threelonmusketeers@sh.itjust.works 6 points 9 months ago (6 children)

this decision was made as a community by conducting a poll

Would it be possible for you to link to said poll? I'm curious what the final votes were.

[–] Blaze@reddthat.com 4 points 9 months ago

Curious about the poll too, I follow this community quite closely and haven't seen it

[–] THE_MASTERMIND@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 9 months ago (2 children)
[–] Blaze@reddthat.com 6 points 9 months ago (1 children)

It seems like the poll didn't run for more than 20 hours, that seems a bit short?

[–] THE_MASTERMIND@lemmy.sdf.org 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Yeah i was goingbto let it run for 2 days but as i was about to become busy and i thought 20 hours would cover most timezones i wrapped it up.

[–] Blaze@reddthat.com 8 points 9 months ago (22 children)

People are usually active at the same time every day (e.g. in the evening) so it's better to give it a few days.

I just finished my workday, yesterday at the same time the poll wasn't there, now it's closed.

Also be careful about vote propagation, here is the view from

https://discuss.tchncs.de/c/lemmyapps@lemmy.world

Hi there! Looks like you linked to a Lemmy community using a URL instead of its name, which doesn't work well for people on different instances. Try fixing it like this: !lemmyapps@lemmy.world

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[–] brickfrog@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

Pretty sure that vote count isn't correct. If I recall correctly the home instance of a community would have the total vote counts. When viewing a post from other instances you often just see the votes from users on that instance. I don't know when/if/how that propogates to keep vote counts the same across different instances (assuming it does, I don't think Lemmy devs place much value on tracking votes TBH).

What is the link to the post on lemmy.world itself, anyone have that?

e.g.

-14 votes https://lemmy.world/post/12235423

+1 vote https://lemmy.sdf.org/post/12576832

-12 votes https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/14852887

EDIT: Added lemmy.world, that should be the correct total vote count (thanks /u/Blaze@reddthat.com !)

[–] threelonmusketeers@sh.itjust.works 4 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Just for completion, here's my home instance: https://sh.itjust.works/post/14996406

At the time of posting this comment, I see:

| Instance | Upvotes | Downvotes | Net | |


|


|


|


| | World | 57 | 71 | -14 | | SDF | 71 | 70 | +1 | | div by 0 | 58 | 70 | -12 | SJW | 57 | 70 | -13 |

Vote federation issues aside, even the most positive value (SDF) is only a narrow win for the upvote result, which is pretty much exactly what I predicted. This is before we even account for users for whom downvotes are not an option.

I also take issue with the poll being wrapped up prematurely. With the some fluctuation in the federation of votes, and the net number of votes hovering around zero, one could simply wait until the votes tipped in their favour, and close the poll at that time. I'm not saying this is what was done, just that it would be possible.

[–] Blaze@reddthat.com 1 points 9 months ago

Thanks,

FYI, I raised the issue to the LW admins on !moderators@lemmy.world

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[–] Blaze@reddthat.com 3 points 9 months ago (9 children)

@THE_MASTERMIND@lemmy.sdf.org, could you please revert the community to what it was when you took over (allowing non FOSS?)

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