this post was submitted on 20 Jan 2024
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If Kenneth Eugene Smith is brought to the Alabama death chamber to face execution next week for his role in the 1988 murder-for-hire of a pastor's wife, the state plans to use an untested and untried method to end his life, suffocating him with a stream of nitrogen gas to be delivered through a face mask.

In a federal appeals court Friday, Smith's lawyers sought to block it, arguing that not only have Smith's constitutional rights been violated, but that he could be subjected to an agonizing death and that most of the details surrounding the state's new execution protocol "deserve more scrutiny."

The use of nitrogen gas will be a capital punishment first, even though it has not only been denounced by some medical professionals but also by veterinarians who oppose its use on animals. In 2020, the American Veterinary Medical Association advised against the use of nitrogen gas as a way to euthanize most mammals, calling it "distressing." One of the few uses of nitrogen gas in animal euthanasia is with chickens.

The United Nations' Office of The High Commissioner for Human Rights has expressed alarm, saying in a statement that the untested method "could amount to torture or other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment under international human rights law."

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[–] shalafi@lemmy.world 45 points 10 months ago (3 children)

This is so dumb I can't get my head around it. Put a man in a chamber, flood it with N2, painless, easy death. Hell, he even gets to go out high as a kite!

Are we all so ignorant that this isn't obvious?! FFS, I remember a tragedy where two teens died fucking in a giant helium balloon. They didn't know they were dying.

CO2 overload is what triggers the choking/suffering response. Our bodies have no way to detect a lack of O2. We'll happily breathe any non-noxious gas, as long as it's not CO2. Hypoxia don't sound like a bad way to go. .45ACP to the skull comes a close second, but I'd like to fade out stoned, given the chance.

Signed: Old guy with mild emphysema from smoking 20-years. I don't get short of oxygen, I get short trying to pump the CO2 out.

[–] FaceDeer@kbin.social 13 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Unfortunately, for many proponents of the death penalty suffering is the goal.

[–] derf82@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago

It’s not the proponents arguing against it.

[–] derf82@lemmy.world 8 points 9 months ago (1 children)

It is death penalty opponents that are against it.

The closest death penalty opponents have gotten to eliminating it is getting drug companies to stop supplying the traditional lethal injection drugs. With that, executions have ground to a near halt, as alternatives do not work as well and has been challenged.

But nitrogen is easy to obtain and painless. So if it gets used, there goes the need for drug companies. So opponents have taken to outlandish and disingenuous arguments claiming it is dangerous and painful despite plenty of evidence to the contrary. Once it is used for the first time, the experimental argument is dead. So they are desperate to avoid breaking the seal, as it were, on nitrogen asphyxiation.

Of course vets are against it. They have no difficulty getting the necessary drugs, and they have no desire to add new equipment for it.

[–] ryathal@sh.itjust.works 6 points 9 months ago

Vets also wouldn't want to have to put animals into a chamber or somehow mask them to kill them. Walking in with a syringe and 30 seconds later being done is super convenient.

[–] ryannathans@aussie.zone 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Nitrogen doesn't make you high.. you're probably thinking of N2O, nitrous oxide.

[–] Poach@lemmy.world 14 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Lack of oxygen will get you high. Look up hypoxia.

[–] ryannathans@aussie.zone 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I wouldn't really call that high

[–] QuinceDaPence@kbin.social 9 points 9 months ago

Euphoria and warmth are two really common symptoms of hypoxia.

But even then people who have dies in confined, oxygen-deficient environments, as long as they aren't high CO2, don't even realize anything is up until they pass out.

[–] lennybird@lemmy.world 44 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

The funny thing is short of overdosing on ketamine and morphine, I always thought nitrogen gas would be my preferred choice to go as it sidesteps the hypercapnia that leads to the urge to need to breathe.

That being said, they could always build a pressure chamber to simulate even a fraction of the pressure differential the titan submersible went through and that is proven to be painless and faster than the point the brain can process.

Or, you know, just not use the death penalty.

[–] assembly@lemmy.world 9 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I think the most humane method would probably be the combo you highlighted. So like morphine and ketamine and then nitrous to ensure that once the individual enters shallow breathing the nitrous would complete the objective. I can’t imagine there is a more relaxing and stress free way to die than that.

[–] Ton@lemmy.world 7 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Of course, the revenge driven justice system is not looking for the most humane way to kill someone. The cruelty is the point.

[–] derf82@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Except that is exactly why they are wanting to do nitrogen asphyxiation.

[–] Cogency@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

They aren't doing it willingly. The drug manufacturers are no longer supplying the cocktails for lethal injections and the medical field is refusing to take part in the act.

[–] derf82@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Yes, so they chose an alternative that is meant to be as painless as the old method.

[–] Cogency@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

They chose a mechanical non- biological method that could proceed without the medical community, again this isn't out of benevolence, they were forced to act less cruelly because their hands were forced by the medical community.

And the old method was often misadministered so it was often as painful as they could make it. Link I have no doubt someone will find a way to make suffocation painful. Even if the method on the books is painless. The cruelty is/ was/ and always has been the point.

[–] derf82@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

You do love straw men.

No, if they wanted to be cruel, they could bring back hanging, the firing squad, or the electric chair. This is better than those.

You are making accusations with zero proof.

[–] Cogency@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)
[–] derf82@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

That doesn’t support your allegation that it was deliberately made painful. Hell, your own link says Ohio postponed executions to reevaluate. You are adding malice solely on the bases your your opinion.

[–] Cogency@lemmy.world 1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

It was deliberately made painful by the reports of the survivors. They took what was a deliberately painless set of injections and would administer massive overdoses of the killing portion of the cocktail without administering the sedative portion. I don't want to remember how I know this. There were various reports of individual staff members overseeing the cases, included in how I've come to this conclusion.

[–] PsychedSy@sh.itjust.works 2 points 9 months ago

Imagine simulating the pressure in a large cylinder then opening some tiny irises that grow quickly. Diced and smushed.

I want to do this to a steak now.

[–] Chickenstalker@lemmy.world 24 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Simply chop his head with a guillotine. Almost zero percent chance of fucking up, quick and painless. No, that one story about the slapped head is bunkum. Standing up suddenly can cause you to faint due to low blood pressure. Having your neck cut off results in a much more sudden drop in blood pressure to the brain. People just don't want to see the messy blood spilled. If you want to execute someone, deal with it.

[–] ryathal@sh.itjust.works 6 points 9 months ago (3 children)

Execution methods have weird requirements to be efficient, but also not look violent for those watching. They also get bonus points for looking high tech.

[–] MilitantAtheist@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Put a smiley mask on him and have ai do the executing.

[–] ryathal@sh.itjust.works 1 points 9 months ago

If they lined the gas tube with led lights so it looks like glowing green gas is being used it would probably help.

[–] Mycatiskai@lemmy.ca 3 points 9 months ago

So strapped to a table then a bolt gun attached to the back of the table separates the spinal cord from the brain fits the bill. It doesn't look violent, no one would even see the bolt go in and out. It is fast, it is reusable and it could even use renewable energy if it is powered by solar panels.

[–] intensely_human@lemm.ee 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

This is exactly why we should be hitting people with a beam that makes them glow and then disappear.

[–] Stalinwolf@lemmy.ca 1 points 9 months ago

Yeah? Bet he can't burp his ABCs!

[–] intensely_human@lemm.ee 0 points 9 months ago

I’d be in favor of some kind of head ripping off machine myself.

[–] Mango@lemmy.world 7 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Welp. Here's hard undeniable proof that CBSnews is absolutely worthless. They're lying and putting together as many bad adjectives together as they can to make the most humane possible execution method sound absolutely terrible. This is literally the way I want to die. It's simply hypoxia without the CO2 spike that makes you feel like you're suffocating. You get a good buzz this way. FFS, I literally hyperventilate and then hold my breath while jerking it for this effect!

Fuck CBS and all the people trying to make this look bad. The only bad about it is that we're still killing people with a legal system that convicts innocents like me.

[–] riodoro1@lemmy.world 4 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I literally hyperventilate and then hold my breath while jerking it for this effect!

Shit, thanks for letting us know I guess.

[–] HelixDab2@lemm.ee 6 points 9 months ago (2 children)

We can have a solid, productive argument about the way that they death penalty is applied, and how it's more likely to be used in racist and classist ways. (My stance is that some people need to be completely removed from the possibility of being returned to society; the overwhelming majority of the people that fall into that extreme risk category are white, and almost always have famous pseudonyms, like Co-Ed Killer, Night Stalker, Zodiac, Green River Killer, Father John Geoghan, and so on.)

You can't argue in good faith that nitrogen is anything other than a very soft way to die.

[–] ziggurat@lemmy.world 4 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I agree with your comment, I just want to point out that I am explicitly against capital punishment, without disagreeing with you. And also that the reason for the demographic spread is that this is the demographic spread of the community you are talking about.

Also, while I am against capital punishment, if it had to be used, it should always be nitrogen gas, it is not untested, it is very well tested to cause no pain what so ever to subjects almost suffocating from it.

[–] HelixDab2@lemm.ee 1 points 9 months ago

And also that the reason for the demographic spread is that this is the demographic spread of the community you are talking about.

I think that you misunderstand. There are very, very few (known) black serial killers. The only one in the US that I'm aware of is questionable; Wayne Williams was convicted of the murders of two adults, but there was very little connecting him directly to the other murders that the Atlanta Police Dept. claimed he committed. My argument would be that, outside of serial killers and serial child rapists, use of the death penalty should be very, very rare, given that the risks to society are very low compared to the possibility that they could ever be released or escape. E.g., someone like Ed Kemper is always going to be a danger to society, until he's dead.

[–] TopRamenBinLaden@sh.itjust.works 3 points 9 months ago

100 percent with you on Nitrogen being a very soft form of execution. If I was forced to choose how I would be killed and could choose any method possible, I would pick the Nitrogen unquestionably.

[–] GilgameshCatBeard@lemmy.ca 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

There’s a pretty fail-safe way to avoid this happening.

[–] Deceptichum@kbin.social 21 points 10 months ago

Don’t have the death penalty? Agreed.

[–] LunarVoyager@lemmy.world -2 points 9 months ago

I would expect nothing less of such a medieval shithole

[–] Blaster_M@lemmy.world -4 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Better idea. M16, three shots to the head.

[–] PunnyName@lemmy.world 22 points 10 months ago (1 children)

How about not having government sanctioned murder on the table at all.

[–] M500@lemmy.ml 0 points 9 months ago

You killed someone. So you must be punished by being killed.

So dumb!

[–] shalafi@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

LOL no. We Americans want retribution and death without messy stuff like blood. Ya know, like Hollywood?

For my tastes? Shoot me in the head. But I'd take N2 gas over that.

[–] QuinceDaPence@kbin.social 1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

I forget which state it is but there's one where you can choose firing squad as your execution.

[–] mctoasterson@reddthat.com 1 points 9 months ago

Utah, but they seldom use it. Last person executed by this method was in 2010, I believe.

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