That’s the entire point of the phrase, as far as how I’ve always interpreted it: don’t blame people for doing what’s best for them within a system they don’t control.
this post was submitted on 18 Jan 2024
164 points (82.3% liked)
Showerthoughts
29284 readers
2003 users here now
A "Showerthought" is a simple term used to describe the thoughts that pop into your head while you're doing everyday things like taking a shower, driving, or just daydreaming. The best ones are thoughts that many people can relate to and they find something funny or interesting in regular stuff.
Rules
- All posts must be showerthoughts
- The entire showerthought must be in the title
- Posts must be original/unique
- Be good to others - no bigotry - including racism, sexism, ableism, homophobia, transphobia, or xenophobia
- Adhere to Lemmy's Code of Conduct
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
I can hate both. Morality is not subject to the whims of legislation. If you're a billionaire, you've done something immoral. Playing "within the rules" does not absolve you of all morality.
The reason that doesn't make sense, is billionaires are the only ones with the power to fix the economic system thru political donations.
The saying isn't meant for your example, because they're not just players. Their also the refs and the ones who wrote the rules for the game.
Like:
It is what is
That makes sense if said between prisoners about how shitty jail is. But if a prison guard beat an inmate and then said that, it doesn't make sense.
Just because it's not true 100% of the time for 100% of people doesn't mean it's worthless. By that logic no phrase should exist
I agree, I've said that about this phrase before! I can hate the player too. Not one of my favorite maxims.
If a game inevitably leads to billionaires unless you can count on all individuals being moral people, I take the liberty of hating the game that sets things up like that.
Any system can be abused. Amoral assholes will always exist. We have a system that rewards amoral assholes with wealth and power. Hate both the player and the game.
Of course you can hate both. But I think the phrase tries to make you focus on systemic issues instead of individualising them.
I can hate Elon Musk. But if he wasn't there, someone else would fill the dipshit shaped hole the system leaves for him.
I understand the meaning, and you're right that the system would just reward a different dipshit. But Elon is there, and he is a dipshit deserving of scorn. If it was someone else being a dipshit, then I'd hate them for being a dipshit.
The system should prevent people like Elon from amassing so much wealth and power. But even if it did, he would still be a dipshit.
Hate the game, hate the player, because both fucking suck.
We have a system that rewards people for producing value. You can see the effects of this system all around you, in the absolutely massive wealth that surrounds and serves you every day.
"Producing value." Nobody produces a billion dollars worth of value. It takes thousands of people to produce their value, and they keep most of it by fucking over the people that work for them.
The system is fundamentally exploitative and cruel, leveraging fear and violence to extract value from poor people for pennies on the dollar.
"Value" is a socially loaded construct. Some people value golf courses more that a healthy ecosystem.
Someone else has to suffer for the wealth you enjoy.
Legality is not the same as moral or ethical. The rules of life, civility, and good society are not preordained. Aka we make our own norms and values.
load more comments
(15 replies)
Clearly these people are unfamiliar with the prisoner's dilemma.
The system is large and powerful. However, it's perpetuated by individuals. Apathy is a lack of empathy...
In this particular context regulatory capture and political donations is the unseen bullshit of the claim. Corporations DO make the rules
You are literally defining the meaning of the phrase. That is not a shower thought.
Two hundred up votes, dont hate the player hate the game
Hate the upvoters lol
load more comments
(1 replies)
Yes.
Just like "it is what it is", that statement is a "thought terminating cliche" and that is what it's doing.
Is labeling a phrase a “thought-terminating cliche”, a thought-terminating cliche?
load more comments
(2 replies)
Yes, but the game is the problem. That's why the ecological footprint is problematic, it pushes the responsibility towards individuals rather than changing laws.
It occurs to me that a great many sayings exist for the speaker to self justify their own actions
Yup, that's why people say it. "I'm an arse hole, but what do you expect?"
My first thought after hearing that saying 20-something years ago was “the player perpetuates the game.”
If people refuse to play, there is no game to hate.
load more comments
(2 replies)
The player's job is to play optimally; the rules dictate what is and isn't optimal play. Not just limited to capitalism, this concept is a big part of game theory.
These are the shower thoughts I have. Got a whole ass manifesto cooking up there.
The definition of fascism at the end of the day is "fuck you, I have mine, stop complaining because you are a loser". Yes, fascism is the extreme end point of that view but ultimately that is what fascism is. Who cares what is fair, the losers are losers and the winners are winners and fascists are 0% interested in examining that any closer no matter how arbitrary or stupid the set of rules that determined the winners or losers are.
I hate the phrase "don't hate the player, hate the game". I'll hate the player too lol. You know what playing a sport where bad behavior is technically possible and in the best interests of a player to do, but a player refuses to do it because of a love of the sport and the desire to be a good opponent? It is called good sportsmanship. Sports/videogames are miserable experiences when it is just ruthlessly competitive people playing who will exploit any advantage, fair or not and have zero interest in sportsmanship. Is there a broken mechanic or rule? These types of people will exploit it over and over and over and over again and just keep saying "don't hate the player hate the game" even though it is them, the player, actively making a choice to make the experience miserable for everyone else.
I think you just made that definition of fascism up.
In line with another phrase I hate, " If you can't take me at my worst you don't deserve me at my best". It is just the person saying it trying to cover their awful behavior.
It's not related to that phrase at all
It’s related in the sense YaksDC would rather hate it than try to figure out why people say it
Learn to recognize systemic problems rather than personnel problems.
We are all playing by being here.
I think we should flip the board but I'm not going to die holding my breath.
Oh bummer turns out our daily meals were coming from some of those pieces on the game board. We flipped the board, and now we can’t eat.
view more: next ›