LOL, if you think that's bad, wait 'til you find out that the suburbs can't afford roads, either!
Car-dependency is a fiscal disaster on both the micro- and macro-scale, let alone everything else catastrophic about it.
this post was submitted on 16 Jan 2024
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It is also a disaster on an environmental scale, and not just due to emissions.
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Cars have always been relatively expensive to own and operate and the American way, unfortunately, has been to take out lines of credit in order to purchase vehicles they could just barely afford.
It's insane to think about but the average car payment for a new vehicle in 2023 was $726 and the average loan term is nearly 70 months!
I've always lived by two rules when it comes to vehicles:
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Never buy new. Buy approximately two years old used low mileage
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If I can't afford the vehicle on a three year note, I can't afford the vehicle
Additionally, always secure third party financing and have it in your back pocket, but don't tell the dealership that part until absolutely necessary. They may try to match it, but their fine print has always had catches it in that make it a worse option in my experience.
I'm not sure if these rules will work going forward as prices seem to have doubled in the past three years, and I'm loathe to ponder how purchase is getting replaced by subscribe.
My current car is ten years old with 110k miles on it. I keep it super maintained because I can't stomach the thought of my next buying experience.
As a young adult who wanted to avoid debt, my rules were somewhat similar
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Car must be used, for sale by private seller. Avoids dealership fees, warranty fees etc.
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If I cannot buy it in full, in cash that day, I cannot afford it.
I bought my first car on credit. After my last payment, I diverted that money into dedicated savings for the next car. Kept me from lifestyle creep and paid myself interest instead of the bank.
As a young adult in Europe (the place where walking and biking safely is possible), my rules were:
- Rent apartment close to work
- Don't need car and I still commute to work faster then my collegues
I am entirely convinced US cities are designed by the car lobby.
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The sweet spot for me was buying cars in roughly the 6 year rage. Specifically Toyotas and Hondas. My last car was an '06 Accord and it was a fantastic car. Affordable to buy, no bullshit, cheap to repair and required repairs rarely, drove great, solid interior. I would have kept driving it for another 5-10 years easy if I hadn't moved to a country/city where driving is totally unnecessary.
My buddy bought it off me and did some minor things to it and is still happily driving as his daily commuter right now.
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Brand new cars in 1973 were like $2500 ($17000 in today’s dollar). No one wants to sell compacts in the US anymore because people love their giant SUVs.
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Stop buying suvs and trucks. Buy compacts and small sedans. As those markets erode it just makes everything worse.
I'm a multi tradesman and I run about in a 1.2L Korean shitbox with a trailer when I need it
Same tradesman in the US apparently needs a 6L V12 pick-up simply because of his micropenis? Yeah thanks for the pollution Brad/Chad/Tad whatever
He isn't a tradesman. He is either an office worker or unskilled labor.
The only practical use I have ever seen in my life for those oversized pickups is in South East Asia I rode on one that had been converted into van to go up and down this shit road into the mountains. Moving people. So unless you make a living loading up 8 people at a time to bring them up a terrifying grade mountainside you don't need a vehicle like that.
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Couldn't buy a house, so now we have to rent. Now that we can't afford rent, might as well live out of a car. Now cars are too expensive, might as well live out of a cardboard box.
Owner Class: “Hey - it should trickle down any minute. I know you’ve been waiting 50 years for it, but it’s gonna come this time. Meanwhile, please subscribe to our Cardboard-Box-as-a-Service.”
EDIT: Oops, I just got back from my beating. My owners wanted me to add an additional addendum:
“Cardboard-Box-as-a-Service (CBaaS) has some additional benefits. Our free tier allows you access to the box, along with special promotions from our sponsors that will play inside the box. Parking comes as an extra service in order to comply with the law. We will provide details on what surcharges you can expect, but our partner providers can communicate what rental fees for land for the CBaaS entail.”
“Our Premium Tier will remove ads. And finally our Super Premium Tier includes a bidet. Water service for the bidet is included with up to 10 bidet cycles per user, with additional licensing available for additional fees. Water pressure may be throttled when many concurrent users are using their bidet. We will release new details on additional plans to increase your booty stream priority, once we figure out how much we can get away with.”
I am tempted to save this comment just to see how accurate it is in ten years.
Can I cry yet?
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Bezos just saw this post and cardboard box prices just tripled. Thanks a lot.
"Yea, but the rents are outrageous" - Bender, Futurama
Have you seen how much cardboard boxes cost now?
Source: just got notice of lease termination, been looking into moving logistics
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I blame trucks.
Right. Cars aren't really on the market. These cramped, low visibility, shit-mileage behemoths are the reigning force on the market now.
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If we'd always been accounting for all the actual costs of cars, including externalities, most people would have never been able to afford them, we'd recognize them as the very costly luxeries they actually are, and not have completely dismantled our ability to live without them in every city except NYC, Boston, Chicago, DC, and San Francisco.
You could say that about everything. If you would account for all actual cost no one would fly, eat steaks, own 2 TVs or change phones every 2 years either. We would buy things that last 10-20 years and replace them only when they are broken. As we used to...
Slippery slope aside, I think reducing unnecessary consumerism would be beneficial for our most vuneral populations. There would be a lower barrier of entry into the economy and more resources would be available at a lower cost for people who cannot afford them
Oh, I wasn't making a slippery slope argument. I meant that this is what should happen. We exported most of the devastating impact on the environment and the terrible working conditions to developing countries so that we can enjoy tons of crap we don't really need. If things we buy would reflect the actual costs we would have to limit how much we consume. Of course no one would like it.
Well, it's a mixed bag. There have been absolutely incredible advances in efficiency that do enable a lot of things to genuinely be much cheaper and accessible than they used to be, but some of that is also just the ability to throw external costs on other people (climate change, for instance). This is why things like carbon taxes are so strongly supported by economists.
Steak, for instance, is hugely subsidized by how little farmers have to pay for water, along with other government benefits. Flying has environmental costs, but those are reasonably quantifiable and, per flight and per passenger, not that insane as far as I understand.
I do think consumer electronics are a bit of a different story though. Yes, cheap labor plays a huge role there, but those labor costs aren't completely divorced from reality; the fact of the matter is that east Asian labor is actually chap. Ocean shipping and modern production plants are insanely efficient, though again climate costs need to be captured.
But east Asian labour is cheap because of bad working conditions, weak workers' rights and no environmental protections.
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Cars actually make more sense in low density areas. Farmers need to get around. Urban areas should rely mostly on public transportation.
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On the other hand, the world could have its first trillionaire within the decade!
And you know how like 1 billion seconds is 31.7 years...guess how many 1 trillion seconds is in years...
...you ready?
A little under 31,690 years
But unlike Americans living in an unaffordable country, our future trillionaire earned it...right?
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It's self inflicted. Americans don't buy inexpensive new cars. Now everything new is targeted at upper middle class and financing is expensive + pent up demand from COVID is exacerbating the issue pushing used buyers into the new market.
But you can still buy a Mitsubishi for under 20k and an Impreza for 22k. People don't.
Certified pre-owned lease returns! I’m on my second and they’ve both been great cars for $22k or under.
That said, a big contributor is the amount financed. When we’ve bought new cars we paid $7k up front for mine and $5k for my wife’s plus our trade ins. Many, if not most, people can’t afford to do that so they have huge monthly payments even before interest.
22k for a used car seems like a bad deal
Depends on how used, make, model, and trim. Not everyone is in a race to a bare bones compact.
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Americans can no longer afford ~~their cars~~
not to mention insurance costs and taxes
used vehicles cost nearly same in most cases and in poor condition
yes let us blame trucks not the $7.50 minimum wage and the inflation and what have yous
yes let us blame trucks not the $7.50 minimum wage and the inflation and what have yous
¿Por qué no los dos?
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Y-….you guys used to be able to afford cars?
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