this post was submitted on 28 Nov 2023
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A Boring Dystopia

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[–] AllonzeeLV@lemmy.world 143 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (6 children)

How in the fuck would one do something like this and still consider themself a mensch?

I was being rhetorical, but the answer is dehumanization, which is the height of irony considering how Israel came to exist in modernity.

[–] Chocrates@lemmy.world 53 points 9 months ago (6 children)

Israel is a product of European Colonization. It predates WW1 and WW2. After learning more about it, IMO it shouldn't exist as it does today.

Jews and Christians and Muslims lived in the area since the religions were invented, we don't need a European colony to still exist.

[–] GentlemanLoser@ttrpg.network 43 points 9 months ago

Good luck fitting it all back in the box

[–] Tavarin@lemmy.ca 20 points 9 months ago

Jews and Christians and Muslims lived in the area since the religions were invented

Under strict Authoritarian Muslim rule. The Jews and Christians didn't exactly have a lot of power in the area.

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[–] Uranium3006@kbin.social 46 points 9 months ago

Only a couple generations separate Auschwitz and Al-Shifa. The lesson we can draw from this is that ethnostates will always end in misery

[–] whoisearth@lemmy.ca 21 points 9 months ago (2 children)

I think that's the funniest/saddest aspect of all this. My kids are half Jewish. My ex-wife is Jewish so needless to say I am well aware of the complexity of the history surrounding Israel and Palestine.

But damn if Jews have lost the plot.

[–] funkpandemic@lemmy.ca 42 points 9 months ago (4 children)

Agreed, but let's use the term z*onist because there are plenty of Jews who denounce this despicable regime.

[–] sab@kbin.social 14 points 9 months ago

Even the history of zionism is more complex, and it has been captured by the worst demons of the ideology.

Sure, it's inherently problematic for anyone who values the separation of state and religion, and in a modern political landscape it does read like a recipe for disaster. Based on the old testament and Jewish history however, it's easy to see the romantic appeal of Zion without it at all justifying the terrors of modern zionism.

So I agree with your point completely - I just wouldn't treat Zion as a slur. That said I also don't think zionism in its contemporary form has any legitimate role to play, and it's a cancer on the world like so many isms before it.

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[–] kSPvhmTOlwvMd7Y7E@lemmy.world 128 points 9 months ago (7 children)

We can criticize Israel, while condemning Hamas terrorists

[–] ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world 78 points 9 months ago (2 children)

And we can make aid to Israel contingent on future improvements on the treatment of Palestinians.

[–] LadyAutumn@lemmy.blahaj.zone 27 points 9 months ago

(And prosecute the IDF and Israeli state in international Court for crimes against humanity)

[–] qdJzXuisAndVQb2@lemm.ee 23 points 9 months ago

I like this, we should do this, for sure. Nobody can claim it's unfair.

[–] MuuuaadDib@lemm.ee 47 points 9 months ago (1 children)

At this point, I would argue that Israel has done more for Hamas PR and popularity than anything in the last 20 years.

[–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 26 points 9 months ago (5 children)

I was pissed off at Israel when I learned that we can't have a single-payer Health Care Program because we are too busy funding the one Israel has. Learning how they treat Palestinians just puts a seal on the fuck Israel deal.

[–] I_Fart_Glitter@lemmy.world 29 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Israel is a little bigger in area and population than the SF Bay Area. We don't lack single payer health care because we are paying for Israel's. We don't have it because our government is in the pockets of those who benefit from us not having it.

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[–] okamiueru@lemmy.world 12 points 9 months ago (2 children)

There is absolutely nothing the US does in regards to foreign policy that comes at the expense of accessible healthcare. The US already spends more per capita than any other country.

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[–] Microplasticbrain@lemm.ee 35 points 9 months ago (3 children)

We can also condem israel for creating this entire situation

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[–] Nalivai@discuss.tchncs.de 31 points 9 months ago (10 children)

Do you think if Hamas dissappear tomorrow, those who throw garbage will stop?

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[–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 15 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Ted Kaczynski made a lot of really solid points, but bombing people, especially civilians, is wrong.

People still cheer for Luke Skywalker though.

Humans are more tribalistic than rational. They pick sides and justify later.

[–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 22 points 9 months ago (9 children)

The Death Star was a military installation that had already shown itself to be aggressive with death tolls in the literal billions. Not a fair comparison.

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[–] ElcaineVolta@kbin.social 91 points 9 months ago (1 children)

this combined with the orders from IDF that under no circumstances were celebrations or signs of joy allowed when prisoners were returned to their families; fucking ghouls.

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[–] Erika2rsis@lemmy.blahaj.zone 65 points 9 months ago (7 children)

Calling Israel's apartheid "modern" to me kind of implies that South Africa's apartheid, whose transitional period ended in 1994, was somehow "ancient" or "old-fashioned"... Yeah, you can rest assured that apartheid/segregation always has been far too modern.

[–] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 21 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (3 children)

I mean... It ended. Almost 30 years ago. So it's not happening in the modern day.

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[–] VaultBoyNewVegas@lemmy.world 13 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Also South Africa still has massive problems between white and black people. I watched a documentary a few years ago where I black paralympian travelled round South Africa to see how things had changed and he was stunned that black people live in shanty towns outside major cities still, also the guy was shown a rich area with private security patrols and high walled residences and the security kept coming back to look at him, basically not trusting him there.

[–] STRIKINGdebate2@lemmy.world 13 points 9 months ago

Intergenerational poverty can be extremely hard to break out from. It isn't helped by the fact that wealth in this planet is finite with most of it trickling upwards.

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[–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 43 points 9 months ago (4 children)

Opposing Israel is not the action of a neo-nazi, it is the action of someone who is disgusted by Nazis.

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[–] Drinvictus@discuss.tchncs.de 32 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Garbage and rocks. Don't forget rocks

[–] dustyData@lemmy.world 25 points 9 months ago

But I've been informed by a bunch of friendly folks from reddit that throwing rocks is a highly dangerous major criminal offense, trialed by the military, in Israel.

/s

[–] GutsBerserk@lemmy.world 28 points 9 months ago

Disgusting. Imagine you are walking around minding your business and a Zionist throws his trash on your head.

Israel treats Palestinians worse than animals.

[–] carl_dungeon@lemmy.world 20 points 9 months ago (5 children)

I’m starting to think some of these Israelis aren’t the nicest people

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