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Any one here has any experience with teaching 8 to 12 years old kids Linux?

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[–] maxprime@lemmy.ml 198 points 1 year ago (25 children)

Teacher here.

My favourite “lesson” I ever gave was in a grade 9 technology class. It was a pretty small class, about 10 kids. I split them up into two teams and made a competition. They chose their own teams — it ended up being boys vs girls. I never would have made it that way on my own but that’s how it worked out.

The school had a bunch of old, decommissioned PCs that were headed to the junk yard. I sorted through all of them to get two exact sets of working parts for the competition.

The goal of the competition was to recover a jpeg from one of the hard drives. Each team had a computer with the ram removed and two hard drives. One was blank and the other had the jpeg on it. They also had a Linux Mint installer on a usb stick.

I don’t remember exactly how I had set it up but it was points based, something about getting to different stages first. Like 5 points to be the team that turns the computer on first. One of the big ones was that they got an extra 10 points if they did the whole thing without a mouse.

I told the other classes about the competition and asked some other teachers if it would be okay for them to watch and cheer on. It ended up being the nerdiest and most exciting class ever. Students were literally cheering each team through a Linux install. One team got stuck and had to pull out the mouse. There was booing. It was so epic.

The girls won, being the first to recover the jpeg and they did it all without a mouse. It was so awesome. The jpeg was the meme about how would a dog wear pants.

It was about 5 years ago, my first year teaching. I really miss those days. I only teach math now, and while I like that, there was something magical about showing kids how fun computers can be.

[–] nayminlwin@lemmy.ml 28 points 1 year ago

Damn, we need more ICT teachers like you.

[–] 0x4E4F@infosec.pub 21 points 1 year ago

Wow, just WOW 👏👏👏.

I wish there were more teachers like you in schools. Inspired people, in general... that's what's lacking in society nowadays 😔.

[–] bionicjoey@lemmy.ca 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That is incredible. Good on you.

Out of curiosity, how much had you already taught them about the tasks? Was it just expected that between the whole team there would be someone who knew this stuff?

[–] maxprime@lemmy.ml 24 points 1 year ago

Thanks!

If I recall correctly I didn’t tell them much about anything. One of them had a nerd dad who set up his daughter with Linux at home but she wasn’t familiar with the install process. I gave them some basic info when I gave them the rules (you have to connect the hard drives and ram) but for the most part everything was new to them.

On the other hand, I also ran a computer club with some other kids (in a younger grade) where we took that pile of broken computers and salvaged working parts. We ended up with 3 or 4 working pcs that we ran Linux mint on. They used the computers for Roblox or something at lunch lol. The computers ended up being a popular attraction at lunch!

[–] bbbhltz@beehaw.org 7 points 1 year ago

wholesome, awesome, fun

[–] luigirenna@infosec.exchange 5 points 1 year ago

@maxprime my technology teacher in middle school did something similar with me and a bunch of other kids in 1995 or so. That's how I fixed my first pc, and eventually started a career in IT. There was no team competition, but he basicallt said "these are some broken computers, if you can fix them you can have a lab to play Doom or whatever you want. He helped us setting up the IPX network tbf, but we had to check what dimm banks were working, which not, same with hdd and processors, and put togheter everything and install Windows 3.11

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[–] azimir@lemmy.ml 44 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I just started them on Linux machines from the get go. The same reason I got good at 3.1/95/98 was to setup games, filesharing, and getting hardware to work for better games. Even with Steam, there's always some work to handle oddities. The kids are rapidly becoming reasonable basic admins the same way I did. Whether they decide to go further and learn more will be up to them.

[–] nayminlwin@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Hmm, I guess I'll start by guiding him to deal with his PC problems by himself.

[–] 0x4E4F@infosec.pub 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

That's a good start. Also, include him in your own PC activities (some of them, make some up if you don't have anything that he can be involved in at the time), like "I need to find a cool new background, I was thinking this and this might be cool, could you help me find something online?". It gives kids a sense of being useful and wanted, plus a pat on the back, high 5 or something like that when the task is done. And it might inspire him to look for his own background, something he identifies with 😉.

Have a lot smaller kid, he's 4, but this is just something from the top of my head... or how I would play it.

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[–] azimir@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago

All too much of OS config, IT work, and troubleshooting is a combination of reading docs, trying things, and plenty of online searches. The big missing piece is motivation. That's why I learned as a kid. It was all about building systems to play games.

For your kids, a combination of showing the basics, how to find out how to fix things, giving them agency to modify the OS (assume you'll need to reinstall sometime), and a purpose could get them going. Not everyone find the motivation and interest, but kids are often more able to invest and explore than we give them credit for. I found my son (at age 13) at installed the proprietary NVidia driver for his laptop without my knowing. He just started following tutorials until it worked. Proud dad moment, time for ice cream, and then he went back to playing games with his buddies.

[–] mojo@lemm.ee 34 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Give a kid the arch install wiki and a computer with the USB iso ready to go. Tell them they aren't allowed food until they install it and run neofetch.

[–] yianiris@kafeneio.social 13 points 1 year ago

Any kid? Do I have to prove age? I'll install for a 1kg of basmati, or 3kg of potatos, 2kg of beans, 5kg of onions, or anything similar.

@mojo @nayminlwin

[–] Bomal@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

Well great but it's probably a bit overkill to restrain food, you should consider adapting the food accordingly

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[–] Max_P@lemmy.max-p.me 25 points 1 year ago (5 children)

The only advice I have is to try to make it interesting for them and not just additional practical information they have to memorize. You don't want to be the weird dad that insists on using stuff nobody else does, you have to show them what's cool about it, and also accept maybe they'll just stick with Windows for now.

I also think the main takeaway they should have out of it is that there's many ways of doing the same thing and none is "the correct and only way". They should learn to think critically, navigate unfamiliar user interfaces, learn some more general concepts and connect the dots on how things work, and that computers are logical machines, they don't just do random things because they're weird. Teach them the value of being able to dig into how it works even if it doesn't necessarily benefit them immediately.

Maybe set up a computer or VM with all sorts of WMs and DEs with the express permission to wreck it if they want, or a VM they can set up (even better if they learn they can make their own VMs as well!). Probably have some games on there as well. Maybe tour some old operating systems for the historical context of how we got where we are today. Show them how you can make the computers do things via a terminal and it does the same thing as in the GUI. Show different GUIs, different file managers, different text/document editors, maybe different DE's, maybe even tiling vs floating. What is a file, how are ways you can organize them, how you can move them around, how some programs can open other program's files.

Teach them the computer works for them not the other way around. They can make the computer do literally anything they want if they wish so. But it's okay to use other people's stuff too.

[–] Max_P@lemmy.max-p.me 11 points 1 year ago

For me what planted the Linux seed is when I tried Mandrake Linux when I was 9-10ish. I didn't end up sticking with it for all that long, but I absolutely loved trying out all those DEs. I had downloaded the full fat 5 CD version and checked almost everything during setup, so it came jam packed with all sorts of random software to try out. The games were nice, played the shit out of Frozen Bubble. I really liked Konqueror too, coming from Internet Explorer. It was pretty snappy overall. And there's virtual desktops for more space! People were really helpful on IRC, even though I was asking about installing my Windows drivers in Wine. Unfortunately I kinda wanted games and my friends were getting annoyed we couldn't play games on my computer.

It stuck with me however, so later on when some of my online friends were trying it out, I wanted to try it out again too. I wasn't much into games anymore, had started coding a little bit. So on my computer went Kubuntu 7.10, and I'm still on Linux to this day.

But that seed is what taught me there's more. I didn't hate Windows, I wasn't looking to replace it. I hadn't fallen in love with FOSS yet. It was cool and different and fun. It wasn't as sterile and as... grey as Windows 98. You could pop up some googly eyes that followed your mouse, because you could. There were all those weird DEs with all sorts of bars and features.

[–] 0x4E4F@infosec.pub 7 points 1 year ago

You don't want to be the weird dad that insists on using stuff nobody else does, you have to show them what's cool about it, and also accept maybe they'll just stick with Windows for now.

This 👆. Be weird, but be cool at the same time. None of the other dads can do this, but yours can 🦸 ☺️... and, he can teach you how to do a lot more cool stuff as well 😉.

[–] Max_P@lemmy.max-p.me 6 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Maybe a Steam Deck if they're into gaming, boy do people love to tinker with their Decks.

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[–] TimeSquirrel@kbin.social 23 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

With my kid, he just gets on Steam and starts doing his thing with his friends like everybody else as if he was on Windows. It makes no difference to him. I figure I'd let him learn the same way I learned computers, by just standing back and letting him poke and prod around and giving assistance and guidance when necessary. He can't break anything important.

[–] DuffmanOfTheCosmos@beehaw.org 16 points 1 year ago

I tried this with my son, who is now 17 and not nearly as computer literate as I was by his age, let alone Linux literate at all. I think it's a generational thing, as a kid growing up in the 90s I HAD to learn how to administer our PC at a higher level to do the things I wanted to do. Now with easy apps and tablets and auto-installation of all-the-things you just don't need to be an advanced user to do what you want to do. This is just my experience, YEMV

[–] bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de 20 points 1 year ago

My kids have always been using Linux because that's what I use on my gaming PC. When it was time for my eldest to get his own computer I tried to educate him on the differences between Linux and Windows (admittedly with my bias) and he chose Linux. I feel like wobbly windows played a big part in that.

He moans about some unsupported multiplayer games now and then and I have told him that we have a spare SSD he may use to install Windows. But so far his suffering wasn't big enough to help me step him through that process.

[–] Granixo@feddit.cl 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

SuperTux, Tux Math, Tux Paint and SuperTuxKart.

Easiest way to get kids involved with Linux.

[–] nayminlwin@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 year ago

I did get him into TuxPaint and GCompris. He liked playing around in GCompris.

The problem is I have to compete with youtube and roblox... So I have to lock these out for him to use anything else.

[–] BetaDoggo_@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Just introducing them to it is probably enough. Show them different desktop environments and applications to get them used to the idea of diverse interfaces and workflows. Just knowing that alternatives exist could help them break out of the Windows monoculture later. Enable all of the cool window effects.

[–] nottheengineer@feddit.de 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

KDEs wobbly windows will convert almost any child to linux.

Or the return of The Cube.

[–] squaresinger@feddit.de 13 points 1 year ago

Don't start with the tinkering aspect first.

Ask yourself, why does your kid use Windows?

Probably to play games, access the internet and maybe do their homework. Most probably, they don't use Windows because they specifically enjoy working with Windows, but because it easily lets them do whatever they actually want to do on a PC.

Spending 5h on fixing some weird incompatibility between the Nvidia GPU, your DE and Proton might be fun for some, but it's most probably not what your kid wants to do when they could be gaming or doing whatever they actually want to do. Problems like that can scare them off quickly.

So first setup the PC so that everything they usually do on Windows works without issues.

The next question is, why would your kid want to run Linux instead of Windows?

The usual advantages (FOSS, free to use, better for developers) don't really matter to most kids. The only things I can think of right now are:

  • Runs on PCs that aren't Win11 compatible
  • Some games like Minecraft run faster (but some games also run slower)

With the setup completed and advantages thought of, you can let the kid use Linux quite similarly to Windows. When the kid wants new software or has an issue, work together with them to get everything running. First do everything and let them watch, later let them do more and more of the process.

That's basically it.

[–] 30p87@feddit.de 13 points 1 year ago

My father was lucky, I wanted a minecraft server so bad that I accepted to learn how to handle an Ubuntu Server, with ~10 years.
Then I kinda had my edgy hacking phase with 12, and installed Kali as dual boot.
As my Windows install got older, dirtier and buggier, I decided to just f it and installed Pop over everything.

So, get them to be interested in having/doing something requiring Linux, then show them the wonders of the Linux desktop, preferably not Kali, but something more user friendly, and finally wait till they want to reinstall for whatever reason, like a new PC (with AMD or Intel GPU).

[–] tourist@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

When I was 12 I got "tricked" into installing Linux Mint from a USB drive because another kid told me it had Garageband on it.

Like that meme where you give someone a bunch of adderall and a pickaxe and tell them there's gold under a location you need excavated.

Perhaps you could explore adjacent strategies?

[–] nayminlwin@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

May be not a bad idea.

His screen time is currently limited and he's been asking me to remove the limit. Guess I can let him dual boot into Mint without any screen time limit so that he can play around.

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[–] drwankingstein@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I had good luck walking my nephew through installing and setting up arch. Great introduction into linux, he was 13 but thats close enough to the given range

[–] sviper@programming.dev 9 points 1 year ago

Got my little brother (12) to run Minecraft on Linux mint,

[–] CaptainJack42@discuss.tchncs.de 9 points 1 year ago (3 children)

A friend of mine got his son to use Linux by just not providing an alternative, he installed Debian edu (don't know if that's the name, but basically a Debian spin for kids with parental restrictions and stuff) on an old laptop for him and that's what he used. Once he got his own PC it was over though since he wanted to play Fortnite so bad that he bought windows for that. He still dual boots Fedora, but I don't think he has used it since the windows partition is there.

I think the thing is you can't really get kids (or people in general for that matter) into Linux the way you are probably into it and interested in it. At least not if they're not already interested in it on their own. They will learn how to use it sure, but not the way we're used to using Linux, understanding the intricacies of the system, keeping the system safe,... They'll probably find a way to do what they already do on windows and ignore that the OS is different.

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[–] tigaente@feddit.de 9 points 1 year ago

My kids only know Linux and have never seen Windows in their life before. They know their way around KDE just fine and get the stuff done they need. For gaming, it is steam with proton but mostly they game on consoles.

[–] rufus@discuss.tchncs.de 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

For reference about 4 year olds: https://lifehacker.com/i-raised-my-kids-on-the-command-line-and-they-love-it-5974087

I think I read his blog back then. Telling about the progress his (then) very young son made. How he didn't install a graphical user interface at first but the kid loved 'sl' (the steam locomotive if you mistype 'ls'), and cowsay and so on. And they had a command-line chat to communicate (or just smash buttons).

[–] gerdesj@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago

A discarded Windows laptop is ideal for use with Linux. That's what this Managing Director of an IT company has been doing for over a decade. My desktop PC is a customer cast off from a good five years ago. I slapped in an ageing Nvidia el cheapo card to get two monitors running. My laptop is a cast off from one of my employees - I simply opened it up and moved my M.2 card into it.

I do run ESET on my Linux gear to show solidarity and to show that Linux really is rather more resource friendly than Windows. I login to AD and I use Evolution with Kerb to access Exchange for email. I have the same "drive mappings" to the same file servers too and so on and so forth.

I used to teach word processing, spreadsheeting and databases n that for UK govt funded courses, I've written a Finite Capacity planner for a factory in Excel (note the lack of In-). I still find people who have no idea how decimal tab stops work or how to efficiently use styles. I can confidently inform you that Libre Office is just as good as MSO. They both have their ... issues but both work pretty well.

Kids are easy. Adults are a pain! KDE has a lot of educational games ready to go out of the box.

[–] rufus@discuss.tchncs.de 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Awesome question. And good advice here. To add something: Don't just give them games. Hook up an old printer, install LibreOffice plus the openclipart images. Kids can make everything into a game. We used to play with my dad's old pc and imagined being private investigators and had our own little office. We printed out lots of silly stuff and took notes on the computer. There are a few 'learn typing on a keyboard' games, but back then I didn't have fun with them.

Maybe they like drawing, install TuxPaint, Krita. Or video editing or recording stuff, give them a webcam/phone and Kdenlive. Have them do a spoof on a movie or do their own Lego stop-motion film. Or they like to make music, install Audacity's sucessor, LMMS, a drum sequencer ...

And of course the whole kids-education metapackage if your distribution has one. So they can program little turtles and start coding with Python. You can do this at age 8, depending on the kids personality.

It works best if it's tied somehow into their lives. For example (occasionally) printing homework assignments, a stop-motion suite if they play a lot with Lego anyways...

Other than that, my boy scout education tells me to "look at the boy". Have them explore and see that they like. Assist and teach them how to operate the software they want to use. Help them once they get stuck or can't figure something out on their own. You will have to guide them and show how they can achieve the results they want, so they stay motivated.

Give them background knowledge and tell them the 'why's. Why something is the way it is. I'd say that is the point where we get to Linux. At age 10 or so, you don't necessarily care about an operating system. But you're curious and happy to learn why there are different ones and why they behave differently and the story behind that. And the thing that hooks you is the possibilities and usefulness for your life. So that's why I recommend installing lots of useful (to kids) software.

And maybe give them a chat / instant-messenger program. So they can contact you and ask questions.

As it is with teaching generally, it heavily depends on how you do it. Kids are very curious by default. In my experience: "Look at the boy" has served me well. Kids come in a wide variety. Don't teach them top-down but find a mix of letting them explore and roam, but also make sure to teach them the basics first. And guide them how to apply things to their life and find use-cases and the fun in it. If you pay attention to them, you can adjust your own behaviour.

[–] nayminlwin@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This is also how I got hooked to computers as a kid as well. The problem nowadays though is the internet and easy access to addictive internet services and games. Back then, you're stuck with what's on your PC and somehow have to make the most out of it.

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[–] IsoKiero@sopuli.xyz 6 points 1 year ago

My sons are in that age bracket and when they requested a laptops for themselves (older sister got one for school stuff) I "borrowed" decommissioned thinkpads from work, threw empty ssd's on them and gave computers to boys with linux mint installer on usb-stick. Younger one got it running in couple of hours without any help and is actively learning on how to use the thing, yesterday he told me how he had learned to open software using keyboard shortcuts and in general is interested about the tinkering aspect of things. Older one has a bit more pragmatic approach, he got the installation done as well but he's not interested about the computer itself as it's just a tool to listen to a music, look up for tutorials for his other interests and things like that.

Both cases are of course equally valid and I'm just happy that they are willing to learn things beyond just pushing the buttons. But I'm also (secretly) happy that my youngest shares my interests and he's been doing simple games with scratch and in general shows interest on how the computers, networking and other stuff actually works.

[–] cerement@slrpnk.net 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

there’s always the classic Sugar (the interface for the OLPC project)

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[–] Astaroth@lemm.ee 5 points 1 year ago

As a kid I had windows 98 (and later xp) dual booted with debian and at some point some version of suse. This was ~20 years ago

Well I used it just fine and I knew a bout the mysterious "root" and "sudo" that my dad would use but I was just playing some games and maybe using the web browser.

Using the GUI I never learned Linux and it wasn't until a few years ago that I started using Linux again, and it was only because I wouldn't be able to continue using Windows 7 anymore.

 

So I don't have any experience with teaching Linux and especially not to kids, but I think kids are actually really good at learning stuff if they need too, so give them a PC and the tools to figure things out, if they want to use it they've got to learn, and don't give them other options where they don't have to learn anything.

[–] Bomal@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

You can go with a little escape game, just put vim in Fullscreen and reward the first child getting out.

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