this post was submitted on 23 Nov 2023

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Mildly Infuriating

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[META] Never change, lemmy.ml (i.imgur.com)

submitted 10 months ago by Thorny_Insight@lemm.ee to c/mildlyinfuriating@lemmy.world

215 comments fedilink hide all child comments

For context: The thread was about why people hate Hexbear and Lemmygrad instances

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[–] crystal@feddit.de 139 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (100 children)

One for communists is hardly any different [to one for nazis] as far as I'm concerned.

What do you expect to happen when you call a group of people "hardly any different [to nazis]"?

Communism does not advocate genocide any more than capitalism does. A capitalist society may commit genocide, a communist society may commit genocide. Neither are required to by their economic systems.

National socialism directly advocates for genocide.

It's a ridiculous statement to compare communists to nazis and it's not surprising that insulting communists like that will get you banned.

(Adding islamism to the comparison just makes the statement even more bizarre.)

[–] CanadaPlus@futurology.today 18 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (3 children)

Yeah, it's not a fair comparison. You can say it's a dumb ideology but at the end of the day it's close cousins with big-L Liberalism, and often has been first to the social ideas we hold dear today.

They got banned because lemmy.ml is also a communist-run instance. The mods could have taken the high road and just replied, I guess, but that would have been extraordinary patience. So, they banned the person calling them a Nazi, and I don't think that was an unreasonable choice on their part.

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[–] alienanimals@lemmy.world 33 points 10 months ago (18 children)

The comment might be controversial, but it shouldn't be a bannable offense.

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[–] A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world 30 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (9 children)

So many people here trying to argue dictionary definitions and hide behind technicalities to make their little slice of authoritarianism better than that other slice of authoritarianism.

edit

Good lord, look at the replies to this post. Even being called out on the behavior, they still cant resist slapfighting over silly technicalities and dictionary definitions.

[–] Sanyanov@lemmy.world 12 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (17 children)

Communism isn't inherently authoritarian, it holds no relation to authoritarianism or democracy, just like capitalism, and can exist within any political formation. Conflating communism with authoritarianism and capitalism with democracy will likely result in completely justified dictionary arguments, as this misconception is actually very important ideologically.

Associating communism with things like USSR or, in an even more cursed way, China and claiming communism is authoritarian is actively harmful, especially considering that neither of them ever had communism to begin with - they had socialism and claimed to be directed towards communism some time in the future.

Such shortcuts, like communism=authoritarianism=evil prevent you from actually familiarizing yourself with the concepts and puts you in a position when you oppose a strawman.

[–] prime_number_314159@lemmy.world 8 points 10 months ago (1 children)

In order to collectively own everything, you must have a mechanism to decide the use of the means of production. Some things can be produced, but should not be, and leaving it up to local decision making will produce imbalances, as things that are easier or more fun to produce are produced more often than required.

You need a central nexus of control, and a person or group of people to be the final arbiter of decisions. Every time it's been done in history, either the leaders of the revolution, or the people violent and powerful enough to stab them in the back and take control have landed in this position. Mysteriously, a small group of people controlling all production has only ever lead to tyranny.

Any communism that begins in revolution will devolve into tyranny, and there's no words a dictionary can string together that will change that. Voluntary communes also seem to have problems, but it's more often splintering, which is significantly less harmful.

[–] TotallynotJessica@lemmy.world 9 points 10 months ago (7 children)

In order to own anything at all, you need a mechanism to protect that property with violence. When you have to protect your own property with violence through hired guards, it's feudalism. A necessary quality of capitalism is that the government protects your property with violence. Capitalism cannot exist without governments that defend property with violence or the threat of it.

All modern states are the final arbiters of decisions, just like the USSR and similar governments. If business contracts are signed in America, it's the governments that force people to follow them. If you have a property dispute, the government decides who wins through laws. The government ensures that individual rights are protected through violence, from basic rights like the right to life, to the right to have private property. Laws are backed up by violence, as laws only matter when enforced.

The issue with attempts to establish communism in the past is that their democratic mechanism either failed, or never existed to begin with. When democratic workers councils disagreed with what Stalin wanted, he just ignored them. What could they do about it? When member states of the Soviet Union got upset with federal decisions, tanks were sent in to silence any dissent. These states enforced systems that centralized power and allowed small groups, or even a single person to make unilateral decisions and never have their power challenged.

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[–] PoliticalAgitator@lemm.ee 6 points 10 months ago (5 children)

Regardless, there is an important distinction.

You can argue all you like that political systems like communism and socialism may have lead to things like corruption, famine, wars and genocide but ultimately, the people who support those systems are seeking a fairer way to run society for all people and believe in it despite its history.

Head over to the far-right and the genocide is the point. They want "undesirables" to be killed, enslaved or completely repressed.

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[–] fhek@lemmy.dbzer0.com 26 points 10 months ago (6 children)

I left lemm.ee after a mod told me not to use profanity.

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[–] gmtom@lemmy.world 18 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (5 children)

Yeah no shit if you go to the communist instance and say communists are just as bad as nazis, you're gonna get banned. You even admit to doing this specifically to get banned in your own comment.

Like even though I'm a socialist, I think the guys at lemmy.ml are a bunch of nutjob tankies, but banning people that come to their instance just to be a troll, insult people and purposefully try to get banned isn't actually a bad thing.

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[–] Pratai@lemmy.ca 13 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

I got a 30 day ban on my .ml account for telling the little troll clowns on Hexbear that their childish meme responses were cringy and embarrassing.

I’m just not going to use that account anymore. Let them drive their own community away. There’s better instances.

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[–] Franzia@lemmy.blahaj.zone 12 points 10 months ago (15 children)

You compared communists to ethno-staters. There's extremist and there's radical.

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[–] 1984@lemmy.today 10 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

It's maybe hard to realize but these moderators wants an environment where their users never see an uncomfortable opinion that upsets their users.

As an adult, I don't have a problem with different opinions, but my teenage son has massive issues with it. He wants to go to war with people over opinions, and if they don't agree with him, they are stupid. So I think it's a maturity thing.

Sooner or later, you realize that people have different opinions, and censoring them doesn't make them go away. The ability to discuss different opinions is what makes someone mature.

Anyway, I can absolutely understand why they don't want to moderate difficult discussions. That's a lot of work.

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[–] HarkMahlberg@kbin.social 7 points 10 months ago (4 children)

!meanwhileongrad

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[–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 7 points 10 months ago

Honestly the political extremism makes me want to leave. I've already left a few communities and its sad to see the hate on even basic communities.

I just need to learn to ignore it

[–] hark@lemmy.world 6 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Perhaps reddit would be more your jam?

[–] Thorny_Insight@lemm.ee 7 points 10 months ago

It was. Too bad that place no longer exists.

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