I find it weird that people so vehemently deny that Hamas builds infrastructure near civilian sites. It’s well documented. Doesn’t excuse the thousands of civilians that Israel has killed in this horrible war, but that level of collateral damage is one of Hamas’ aims to shape public opinion. Israel is foolish for feeding into that, they’ve squandered international good will for a goal I don’t think is attainable.
this post was submitted on 23 Nov 2023
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No one denies it. What they deny is that the Hospital itself was a command center for hamas. It wasn't. It was a hospital. And Israel killed a bunch of innocent people to dig outside and find the tunnel. There is no excuse for slaughtering innocents. It is a war crime regardless of any justification.
It's been mind-boggling to see. I mean, "well documented" is kind of an understatement. And so is "near," actually. Hamas tries to literally merge their infrastructure with civilian infrastructure, making it impossible to differentiate between the two, with the express purpose of using civilians as human shields.
And yes, "foolish" is also an understatement. Israel's conservative-controlled government has responded exactly as Hamas wanted them to. It was a trap, an obvious one, and they fell right into it.
The former Israeli PM admitted in an interview that Israel built the bunker underneath Al-Shifa hospital.
Yes, but was Hamas using it?
So far there's zero proof they did. Having to knock a building down to gain access to the entry point would heavily imply that it wasn't recently used and probably hasn't been done Israel walled it of with cement.
There's better evidence that smuggling tunnels that existed before Hamas was even a thing have been used offensively by both sides at one point or another though no credible evidence has surfaced of their use in this conflict.
Honestly it would be kind of dumb to use such shallow tunnels because Israel has flying gpr that can detect tunnels. It's why tunnels weren't super common fighting isil or al queda, it's a ton of time and energy when hiding in plain sight is cheaper less resource intensive and less obvious when your imports and exports are controlled externally by an adversarial nation.
probably because they support the actions or are so binary in their beliefs that there can't be two bad guys
If the person you've kept locked in your basement for decades, surviving on nothing but piss and shit, suddenly comes out and start stabbing people, is it really at all useful to characterize them as the "bad guy"?
Sure, stabbing is "bad", but calling the ensuing violence anything other than the most logical conclusion does nothing but gloss over and erase decades of history and context, and ultimately take the side of Israel.
Hamas isn't Palestine. Hamas, and groups like it, have their stated, public goal being the complete destruction of Israel, and simply will not negotiate peace. At all. They consider it their religious duty to eradicate Jewish people for existing in the wrong place.
Yes, of course Israel's actions have made it worse, by giving Hamas oxygen and credibility, but it's a mischaracterization to treat Hamas as just some random guy Israel kept locked up.
There are no good guys in this conflict, and all involved - except for civilians on both sides - have been terrible to each other for a long time.
Palestine at least has the excuse that they haven’t voted for a long time, Israel doesn’t.
lil' baby bibi has never tried anythign remotely resembling negotiating for peace. Hamas is a terrorist organization. What is the Israeli government's excuse?
Far be it from me to defend him and his conservative government. Netanyahu has been an unmitigated disaster for Israel and for peace, no question.
Just look at this:
That's at the groundbreaking ceremony for a new, illegal settlement in the Golan Heights, named after Trump in honor of him supporting Israel's claim on the territory (and thereby discrediting the United States as a peace broker, unfortunately).
So yeah, I'm well aware that Netanyahu has been terrible.
Hamas isn't Palestine. But Hamas is the Gaza Strip. They are its government.
To be clear, that doesn't warrant the eradication that the Israeli military and the Likud party are executing.
decades.
Israel has admitted, via a former PM, that they built the bunker under the hospital as an expansion to it in the 1980s. Might be why they know exactly where the entrances are.
Another note is that when the "Health Minister" of the Gaza Strip talks, that's Hamas talking. The government there is Hamas. It's just as much propaganda as what the Likud party spits out.
Hamas has been the government in the Gaza Strip only since 2007. Its critical to note that Ol' Netanyahu and his cronies were responsible for enabling that power grab.
why are you defending a terrorist attack that killed innocent civilians?
They didn't. Occupied People are uncooperative. Desperate People lash out irrationally. These are simple cause and effect of Human Nature, not an excuse nor any defense.
Barak replied "It's already been known for many years that they have a bunker that originally was built by Israeli constructors underneath Shifa," which was used as a "command post" for Hamas and as a "junction of several tunnels"
"I don't know to say to what extent it is a 'major.' It's probably not the only...command post. Several others are under hospitals or in other sensitive places."
...
Barak, who was Israel's prime minister from 1999 to 2001, responded, "decades ago, we were running the place, so we helped them." The Gaza Strip has been controlled by Hamas since 2007.
"It was many decades ago...that we helped them build these bunkers in order to enable more space for the operation of the hospital within the very limited size of these compounds."
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Israel has long accused Hamas of using the Shifa hospital complex as a command and control center as part of a wider strategy that seeks to hide its forces among the civilian population.
Journalists were driven in Israeli military vehicles to the hospital complex in the northern Gaza Strip past a landscape of buildings destroyed or vacated during Israel's nearly seven-week-old invasion of the Palestinian enclave.
Army escorts used flashlights to illuminate the way in the dark and showed a small kitchen, a bathroom equipped with a toilet and sink behind a closed door, as well as a room large enough for meetings with two metal beds.
Outside on the ground, the army showed scores of guns, grenades and other explosives that military spokesperson Rear Admiral Daniel Hagari said had been collected in recent days inside the hospital, a motor home and nearby cars.
In Washington, the White House has said its independent intelligence supported Israel's claim that Hamas was using Gaza's hospitals, including Shifa, to hide command posts.
Hamas responded at the time: "The White House and the Pentagon's adoption of the false (Israeli) narrative, claiming that the resistance is using Al Shifa medical complex for military purposes, was a green light for the occupation (Israel) to commit more massacres against civilians."
The original article contains 572 words, the summary contains 213 words. Saved 63%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Looks to be outside the hospital to me. The entire place is covered in tunnels. Just an excuse to kill a bunch of brown people, nothing more.
i wonder why this reuters article is being downvoted
Me shooting up all 12 hostages to kill a bank robber: "Why are people mad at me? I killed the bad guy!"
Because people are scrambling to find the new spot to shift the goalposts to.