Home solar installations however remain just as expensive ):
But every little helps, so this is good news!
this post was submitted on 06 Nov 2023
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I don't know how anyone affords home solar. We got 2 quotes last year to put solar on our 1000sqft roof from solar installers in our area. The first was just over $100k, the second $160k! The second quote was for more than we have remaining on our mortgage - how is anybody doing this?
That’s seems ridiculous: where are you? Are you sure that’s just solar, or would it also include batteries, maybe a “solar roof”, instead of solar on the roof?
Where I live in the northeast us, it’s typically $20-30k. That’s ridiculously expensive and beyond any reasonable payback but state incentives make it much more reasonable. They claim 4-7 years payback but since I can’t follow their math, it goes into the bin with the rest of advertising hogwash
Really depends on your area and amount of solar.
For the DIY approach with 20 panels here in belgium, it would be about 7000€. A contractor is estimated at around 9000€.
If you make a whole solar farm it would be of course, much more, but for a single family with <8000VA it is more reasonable.
To get a 100k+ quote your area must have horrible anti-solar installment fees or the company is not legit.
Keep mind that the prices in the article are FOB China (i.e. cover deliver to a ship in a port in China).
Shipping for Shenzhen (most likely port) will be between $1000 and $2000.
Duty tax for photovoltaic panels from China is 0% (I was curious so checked the TARIC database) but VAT gets added on top of it all (both the panels and the shipping) which depends on the country but will be around 20 - 25%
What I've seen generally (not solar panels but years ago I did look into importing LED lamps) is that doing it directly tends to result in it costing as little as 1/4 of the price but, on the other hand as a small purchaser you run certain risks in terms of quality and the manufacturer guarantees actually being possible to uphold (I've imported stuff were the failure rate was 10% and if you have to send stuff back, it's going to cost you).
It's worth considering for a big enough installation.
That said if one goes DYI, looking around in the EU for better prices is well worth it and does not carry anywhere the same risks (but also won't save you as much) as a retail buyer for something that's 7000€ - this kind of stuff is were the single market really makes a difference and might save you a few thousands of euros.
Chiming in from Denmark.
Bought 8.5 kWp, a 10 kW inverter and a 7.5 kWh Battery in August 2022 for 120k DKK.
The price for the same system today is 70k DKK.
That's pretty ridiculous imo. My system in total was around $45k including parts and installation. I got it Feb 2022. It's 17kW system with microinverters for every panel (42 panels). No battery though.
From the top of my head, it's approximately 7 to 1 conversion.
So I totally agree: your prices are pretty ridiculous in the US! 300k DKK for 17kWp of solar?!?
I have some limited electrical engineering experience and don't like paying other people to do things that I think I can do myself. How likely do you guys think it would be that I'll end up burning my house down if I try to DIY a small solar installation?
It's actually not that hard. Microinverters have taken a lot of the danger out of it. Every one or two panels has an inverter, they can be individually controlled and tie together with 120 volt AC wiring, so you avoid the issue of 100+ volt DC strings that can't be turned off. And on the physical side, there are now rack systems that install very easily and look good. Designing and installing the system isn't hard. Just look up the documentation from Enphase or someone similar, you just need panels, micro inverters, a combiner panel, and maybe one of their computer management units. There's other manufacturers too but the concept is the same. Installing the solar is the easy part. Getting permits is the hard part. Municipalities throw up a ton of red tape and utilities throw up even more for any sort of grid connected system. So what would be a basic concept that a technician level person could design, ends up being this complicated thing that needs engineering sign-offs and stamped plans that have to be approved by the town and the power company and inspected 18 different ways. This leads a lot of people to do off-grid systems, that is, set up your own solar panels and batteries, and run some portion of your house off at using extension cords rather than hardwired. If you're just putting panels on the ground or on your deck and running extension cords, no need for permits.
Thanks, that's encouraging. So is it the roof construction, grid connectivity, or both that requires permits?
Construction, electrical work, grid connection, sometimes architectural review to ensure the result isn't ugly, etc etc
Start out with DIYSolarForum.com and see what you figure. It's not rocket surgery.
I could have either switched to propane heating or oil heating for around $10,000 or switch to solar electric heating for around $12,000.
Not only was it fairly cheap, it also included a receptacle that sends extra energy back to the grid and I get paid for it.
The only time I have to pay for electricity is in the Winter months and that's because the heat is on the go constantly and we don't line dry in the winter.
We need more infrastructure to recycle solar panels. ATM according to the independent, only 10% of panels get recycled. Down the road many more panels installed means many more requiring recycling.
Demand is surely at an all time high. This is great for everyone! I need to find space for more panels.
Well, from the article:
Due to the acute lack of downstream demand, cell makers have been engaged in a price war; they have to compete to cut prices in order to encourage demand and increase sales volume
Me who can't see the sky in my small house between big city buildings: 😔
Hoping batteries for electric vehicles come down in price. The fucking $10,000 replacement cost pushes the cars to the brink of naw I’m not gonna fuck with that zone…
I assume you're referring to a battery replacement? In all likelyhood, by the time it needs replacing in 10 to 15 or even 20 years, batteries will be significantly cheaper probably less than a full motor replacement cost of an ice vehicle.
There are 10 year old electric cars now with failing batteries that no one wants. It’s a now problem, and seeing it makes people not want to buy one (including me)
you seem to be missing the point (I'm guessing on purpose) the tech from just 10 years ago is significantly worse than today. an EV today is not comparable to one from 10 years ago. honestly I'm embarrassed by people buying an ice car in 2023 if they can afford an EV.
I’m can’t afford to buy a new car so does me no good. What kind of EV do you drive?
I can't afford one they're insanely expensive. I have a very sad 2010 prius. but when I can afford a new one it will Def be an EV.
Where are all these cars? I don't seem to ever see them for sale
It's interesting how these low low prices are FOB China (FOB is a shipping incoterms code that means the seller takes responsibility and covers the costs all the way until the product is loaded on a ship).
I live offgrid and rely completely on solar power and battery. A 200w portable solar panel charging a high quality (If a little poor in capacity) powerstation provides enough power for most technological luxuries I have found.
The panels and power station I got cost 400$ total. They can be placed anywhere in your yard that gets direct sun no installation required and you jut fold em up when you mow or whatever.
This system provides me enough power to get by in my technological convinences without much interruption. Its definitely possible to run out of power but I can adjust my usage accordingly when power availability becomes limited.
Also my mind has been opened up to the world of DC appliances meant for such systems. USB heating blanket and chair, cigarette plug electric kettles/coffee makers, cigarette plug ovens, portable washer+dryers, portable USBC charged monitor displays. Do they work as good or fast as their AC wall outlet equivalents? No, but they work and won't eat into your limited power nearly as badly. You would be surprised at how much a 10 watt electric blanket can keep you warm when its cold.
Its only when people want heavy appliances and big power hungry TVs/computers that you need stupid huge power demands. I don't need a fridge I just stock up on nonperishables, I don't need a washing machine + dryer when a tubs, clothing scrubbers, and drying racks exist (also they make small plastic washer+dryers for RVs and apartments/college dorms). I don't need running water when I have a hand pump sprayer or battery powered pump or just take a farmers bath. I don't need electric heat or AC when smartly placed popane heaters and box fans are a thing.
Guess how much my electric, heating, and water bills are? The only thing I still pay for now is propane which comes to around to 1-2$ per night in heating depending on conditions.
And I still get to enjoy many luxuries and conforts of modern life. Coffee in the morning, YouTube, video games (on a laptop, god I want a steam deck) music, reading, and a comfortable bed.
So many people live just below their means paycheck to paycheck unwilling to give up the tiniest bit of conivnence in order to save big $.
"tiniest bit of convenience". "I don't have a fridge, I don't need it". "I heat with propane".
Man, you're living a cyberpunk life already.
The most power hungry (modern) TV I've seen was 100W. Most fridges nowadays are similar, 100W but intermittent.
A fridge is not "the tiniest bit of convenience".
Box fans don't really help when it's 100F+ and 90%+ humidity. Where I am it you leave a house without air condition for even a month during the summer you'll have mold and the ceiling will be falling down.
For anyone that reads this and thinks that cheap solar setups leave you barely scraping by, I'll giv e acounter example. I helped my parents do solar on their RV. It's 720W of panels, 3000W inverter output and cost a little under $3k but could have been cheaper, the cost is due a bit to us being inexperienced at the time and also overbuilding it to allow for more panels. It can run all the modern conveniences (for up to 3 days with no sun) except the big airconditioner, but can run a window unit that conditions the bedroom and dries the rest of the RV. If we were to do it again though we could make it run the big one with pretty much no increase in price.