this post was submitted on 06 Nov 2023

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504

Trump and His Lawyers Dare NY Judge to Throw Him in Jail (www.rollingstone.com)

submitted 1 year ago by TheJims@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world

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[–] Synthead@lemmy.world 157 points 1 year ago (2 children)

“When a defendant honestly believes he can’t possibly get a fair trial from the judge, one of the tactics is to antagonize the judge to a point of causing reversible errors,” Dershowitz says. “That is what happened in the Chicago 7 case, and I was one of the lawyers on the appeal in that case. Abbie Hoffman provoked Judge Hoffman to such a degree that the judge made mistake after mistake. And courts of appeal often reverse convictions or verdicts when the judge has made serious errors.”

What a dick. This does not sound like the legal process at work at all. Besides, innocent people would never do this.

[–] KevonLooney@lemm.ee 38 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The tactics have included attacks on Engoron’s court clerk, filibustering the prosecution’s witnesses with repetitive questions, and raising legal arguments the judge had already specifically prohibited.

Responding to these provocations with contempt charges is correct and proper. Any appeal court judge is going to see that Trump was treated with kid gloves here.

And it kinda doesn't matter what political party the appeal judge is. They really don't like people being disrespectful to them and ignoring their orders. It's like the number one thing all judges hate. This strategy will probably not work.

[–] njm1314@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I don't know about that last part so much. Current conservatives have shown that there is no level that they won't sink to and no level of hypocrisy they won't espouse.

[–] Daft_ish@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Caveat being it is to further their own lust for power. The second they are on the receiving end serious injustices are taking place.

[–] IzzyJ@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

It's so dumb that an appeal for a mistrial can get the whole case thrown out rather than simply retried with a different judge

[–] Tbird83ii@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 year ago

At this point, his strategy is to delay, delay, delay, get elected, and pardon himself.

[–] rhombus@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 year ago

Most mistrials are retried from the beginning. I imagine it’s mostly the cases that involve misconduct on the judges behalf that get throw out, as that’s a strong argument for a 6th Amendment violation.

[–] squiblet@kbin.social 106 points 1 year ago (3 children)

As the article mainly states, this isn't just because Trump can't help it but also as a strategy to make it easier to get a favorable appeal. Plus, it would stoke his favorite way to portray himself, as a victim, and fundraising:

there have been recent conversations among some of Trump’s 2024 campaign brass of how much of an immediate fundraising boost they would enjoy, if a New York judge were to try to put Trump in a cell for even a minute. “All the cash in the world,” one Trump political adviser says.

[–] phoneymouse@lemmy.world 87 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I think the solution here would be for the judge to go after Trump’s lawyers. From the article they’re engaging in some of this behavior themselves, in addition to encouraging it in Trump. But, they want the optics of Trump getting imprisoned in order to play victim and try to help an appeal. Seems the judge could side step that and go after the lawyers instead, who have more to lose.

[–] RestrictedAccount@lemmy.world 53 points 1 year ago

Winner winner chicken dinner!

Lawyers are officers of the court and she can grab them by the short and curlies.

[–] Melody@lemmy.one 16 points 1 year ago

She should remand the entire Trump legal team to the jail for a day, and require Trump to stay at his home for that day as well.

[–] Deconceptualist@lemm.ee 38 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Can the judge jail the lawyers for repeatedly violating his orders? They should know better than to antagonize the court.

[–] SheeEttin@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Sure. A judge can hold anyone in contempt of court, and they can fine or jail them for any length of time.

[–] jballs@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

But could you hold a lawyer in contempt of court for something their client tweeted? That doesn't seem likely.

[–] Madison420@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

Yes you can. It's the lawyers job to keep their client in hand not the judges or the courts.

[–] ferralcat@monyet.cc 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It seems like putting a lawyer in jail would just be a recipe for delaying a trial though. They can't be expected to provide defense if they're locked up. Or do they just require you to find new counsel?

[–] SheeEttin@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

I'm sure he has a whole team. If it was a small case, with really only one lawyer, then they would probably not jail them.

[–] squiblet@kbin.social 8 points 1 year ago

I am far from an expert, but I don't believe so. The court can fine them or maybe recommend them for censure and disbarment.

[–] cosmicrookie@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago

Yeah... Trump political advisers seem to be correct all the time...

[–] HuddaBudda@kbin.social 77 points 1 year ago (5 children)

According to two sources familiar with the matter and another person briefed on Team Trump’s legal strategies, the former president and his lawyers are intentionally trying to provoke the judge into a nuclear-level overreaction.

This? Is the plan?

That's like saying you're going to kill a dragon by hopping into its mouth.

[–] arc@lemm.ee 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

According to two sources familiar with the matter and another person briefed on Team Trump’s legal strategies, the former president and his lawyers are intentionally trying to provoke the judge into a nuclear-level overreaction.

I think Trump's legal strategy is he knows he's lost already. He's going to be fined and run out of business. So is his only hope is if he and his lawyers are obnoxious dicks and provoke a reaction to force a mistrial or grounds for appeal. Also he can whine about "witch hunt" and the usual nonsense to his base if he's found in contempt or held accountable for his actions. Expect this nonsense to happen in his criminal trials too.

[–] whofearsthenight@lemm.ee 5 points 1 year ago

I think Trump’s legal strategy is he knows he’s lost already.

I'm pretty sure he has lost already and guilt has been legally decided. This is to determine the penalty. FTA:

Engoron ruled in September that Trump's financial statements contained fraud.

This trial is to determine the depth of the fraud, and importantly, the consequence appropriate depending on the outcome. The whole strategy now is to delay and get to appeal probably with the number one goal being to get elected again and create a legal quagmire, or simply ride out the rest of his years until his milkshake-filled arteries realize he hasn't ever had a heart and the only thing that's been pumping this long is pure narcissism.

This is, sadly, probably the least stupid thing he could do, because the more facts you learn about Trump, the more you'd think his fetish is just bending over and getting fucked by a strap-on wielding Lady Justice.

[–] CalicoJack@lemmy.dbzer0.com 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If the judge loses it bad enough, they can claim "judicial bias" and have a pretty clear path to mistrial/appeal. Given the situation, it's probably the best play they have.

[–] ferralcat@monyet.cc 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Any normal defendent would be in jail though, probably before the trial even started, but definitely after calling a judge names while in court. I'm simultaneously shocked and not at all surprised he isn't.

[–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Why would he have been in jail prior to trial?

They don't do pre-trial detention for fraud, and the only way for this trial to lead to jail time is a (deserved) contempt charge.

[–] clutchmatic@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

If the lawyers get disbarred then Trump gains time but the lawyers' careers are fucked

[–] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

To be fair it does work if you have an immovable rod and a DM that honors rule of cool.

[–] TechyDad@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

"Step 1, I hop into the dragon's mouth. Step 2, ???. Step 3, the dragon dies and I emerge victorious! There are no holes in this plan at all!"

[–] xkforce@lemmy.world 51 points 1 year ago

Throw all of them in with the normal prison population and any conservative that tries to "liberate" them.

[–] takeda@lemmy.world 51 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I guess he is daring NY Judge, because it is a civil case.

He probably should have his release conditioned on gag order in federal cases. And he should be jailed if he breaks it.

If the fear is that his fans will riot, newsflash: they follow identity politics, they don't care how guilty trump is. Whatever they plan to do, they will do it anyway. So either treat him like you would treat anyone else for similar crimes or just forget about trials and let him do whatever he wants without any consequence. Because there's no point in wasting time if he can't be punished.

[–] postmateDumbass@lemmy.world 39 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The defense is just trumping up reasons for endless appeals.

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[–] rustyfish@lemmy.world 38 points 1 year ago

This reads like a dumpster fire. I hope the judge is way more level headed than I.

[–] YeetPics@mander.xyz 31 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I will straight up double-dog-dare them. I bet they won't, they don't have the balls.

[–] Etterra@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What are the Vegas odds?

[–] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

"This decision is based not only on the odds, but also on an appraisal of the man."

[–] abigscaryhobo@lemmy.world 25 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Same as every other time he has tried to stir shit with these trials. All they have to do is keep a level head and let the hammer drop. They've got him, the evidence is there, all they have to do is get the trials to go through with as few hiccups as possible. These judges need to keep a level head and they should be able to do so easily because, despite all the petulant whining and diversionary tactics, they've got him.

[–] xkforce@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

People said this many times before and he weaseled out of it. I will be optimistic if and I stress IF he ever faces consequences

[–] PrincessLeiasCat@sh.itjust.works 20 points 1 year ago

Fucking do it already.

[–] cuibono@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Someone said that he could still become president even if he went to jail/prison. Is that true? I don't understand how that would even work.

[–] TechyDad@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

Technically speaking, yes. Trump could be sent to prison tomorrow and still be elected President. There isn't any "the President can't be currently incarcerated" requirement. (Likely because the founding fathers thought it was self evident that a criminal shouldn't be elected President.)

As for how it would work, nobody knows. It's never happened. Would he get to go to the White House for 4 years and then have to return to prison to serve the rest of his sentence? (Assuming here that he couldn't just pardon himself.) Would he need to conduct presidential business from the Square Cell instead of the Oval Office? Would a SCIF need to be set up in the prison so that Trump could review classified materials from his cell?

We would be in totally uncharted territory if this happened.

[–] fosforus@sopuli.xyz 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Hitler was imprisoned almost 100 years ago, in April 1924. Perhaps Trump is going by the playbook. Hitler was 34 years old then though, so that part is a little different.

[–] TheJims@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

Maybe he’ll skip to the Führerbunker part with Eva Braun?

[–] eestileib@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Never gonna happen. Judges aren't going to do shit to this guy without a guilty jury verdict.

Even then they'll probably wimp out.

[–] 2fat4that@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Wimp out in fear of what? Not being re-elected?

[–] eestileib@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Having their house set on fire, things like that.

[–] IzzyJ@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Fuck their house, this is the future of our country at stake!

[–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Again.....

I can think of no better defense than directly antagonizing law enforcement

[–] douglasg14b@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Seems to work for anyone with enough money this far.

[–] Dekthro@lemm.ee 3 points 1 year ago

Do it

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