this post was submitted on 05 Nov 2023
138 points (89.7% liked)

Europe

8484 readers
1 users here now

News/Interesting Stories/Beautiful Pictures from Europe 🇪🇺

(Current banner: Thunder mountain, Germany, 🇩🇪 ) Feel free to post submissions for banner pictures

Rules

(This list is obviously incomplete, but it will get expanded when necessary)

  1. Be nice to each other (e.g. No direct insults against each other);
  2. No racism, antisemitism, dehumanisation of minorities or glorification of National Socialism allowed;
  3. No posts linking to mis-information funded by foreign states or billionaires.

Also check out !yurop@lemm.ee

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

Translation:

Essen's mayor Thomas Kufen (CDU) reacts with horror to a demonstration in his city on Friday evening. 3,000 people, including many Islamists, marched through the Ruhr metropolis.

Essen's mayor Thomas Kufen (CDU) reacted with outrage and incomprehension to an anti-Israel demonstration that marched through the Ruhr metropolis on Friday evening. Several of the approximately 3,000 participants chanted slogans and held up posters calling for a "Khilafah" (caliphate) in Germany. The three-hour procession on the edge of the city center was accompanied by 450 police officers and observed by state security.

According to the Essen police, the demonstration was registered by a private individual. However, the main organizer was apparently the “Generation Islam” group, which security experts consider to be part of the pan-Islamist movement “Hizb ut-Tahrir” (HuT) . HuT has been banned in Germany since 2003. The main speaker at the final rally in Essen was the activist Ahmad Tamim, the head of “Generation Islam.” The Islamic scholar Ahmad Omeirate told WAZ that Tamim was “using the Middle East conflict for mobilization and radicalization.”

Mayor Kufen regretted on Saturday morning that "Islamists, anti-democrats and Jew-haters" were allowed to parade through Essen protected by the freedom of assembly guaranteed by the Basic Law: "That is difficult to bear." The CDU politician, who was the North Rhine-Westphalia state government's integration officer from 2005 to 2010, called for consequences: "The Office for the Protection of the Constitution must take a closer look at Hizb ut-Tahrir's splinter and successor groups. Bans must be an option."

The demonstrators shouted slogans in Arabic and German on Friday evening. Posters condemned the Israeli military operation in Gaza ("Stop the genocide") after the terrorist attack by the Palestinian Hamas, and one sign read: "German raison d'état calls for the killing of children." The organizers initially used loudspeakers to remind people of the police requirement that no participant should question Israel's right to exist. The tip-off was met with loud boos from the crowd.

At the beginning of the march, participants were also asked over loudspeakers to separate men and women. So it happened that most of the female demonstrators marched through the city behind the male participants. They repeatedly shouted "Allahu akbar" ("God is great") and held up signs calling for the unity of all Muslim believers and the establishment of a caliphate in Germany. Individual demonstrators stuck their right index fingers in the air; This gesture is intended to symbolize belief in the "one God", but is also seen as a symbol of the terrorist organization "Islamic State". The design of several black and white banners and flags also resembled depictions of IS.

The Essen police announced on Saturday that they would subsequently analyze the Friday demonstration and examine its “criminal relevance”. It turned out that the motive for a pro-Palestine meeting was only a pretext. Instead, the organizers held a religious event.

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] anteaters@feddit.de 32 points 10 months ago (28 children)

The more I see who is "protesting" for Palestine the more I understand why Israel and Egypt are doing what they are doing.

[–] letmesleep@feddit.de 26 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

There's plenty of survey data. It's a sad reality that a large part, likely the majority of the adult population, in Gaza is staunchly fascist. And I don't mean post-fascist or right-wing-populist like Trump and Le Pen are, I mean fascist in the sense that Hitler and Mussolini were.

Some numbers:

I would get less worrisome poll results if I went to a KKK rally.

Given how popular violence against fascists is in the feddiverse, I'm really vexed about the side that is taken here. Usually I have to remind people that just killing fascists on sight isn't a good solution to the problem of fascism, but suddenly people here sound like Trump did on the Charlottesville rally.

[–] S_204@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Seeing people openly supporting Islamic jihadism like we're seeing, not even one generation removed from 9/11 is so crazy to me.

Social Media is a damned virus. It's fucking up far too many people for society to not fall apart at the seams. From supporting someone like Trump, to not believing in the science around COVID, to now supporting Hamas..... like wtf is happening in the world.

[–] letmesleep@feddit.de 5 points 10 months ago

Not a fan of social media either, but in large parts it's merely showing what was already there.

The interesting thing is that in many Muslim majority countries currently experience a historic decline in religiosity. Young people In Iraq, Iran and Northern Africa tend to be worlds less religious than their parents generation. Outside Palestine more and more people seem to get that religious fanatics bring nothing but trouble. Unless the conflicts in the middle east escalate we stand a good chance that Islamism will be a fringe ideology there in the second half of the century. Hence I'm still cautiously optimistic that things will sort itself out.

[–] Mrkawfee@feddit.uk 23 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (6 children)

The protests for Palestine in London have been a cross section of the left and centre left. Muslims, Jews, Christians Socialists, liberals. White and black. Young and old. But our politicians and media paint them as pro Hamas hate marches.

load more comments (6 replies)
load more comments (26 replies)
[–] luthis@lemmy.nz 23 points 10 months ago (13 children)

This is exactly why I am against Islam. Muslim people aren't all bad people, obviously, but Islam in numbers is bad. It always leads to fascism. It also leads to more muslims dying by suicide bombers.

The best environment for muslims (and women, LGBTQ people, immigrants, anyone who isn't a muslim) is one where they are not in control, where they live in a secularist society as a minority and are allowed the 'freedom to practice any religion' where extremists are not given a space to take power or oppress people.

[–] yojimbo@sopuli.xyz 16 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

I don't believe these 3000 individuals faithfully represent the 5+ milion Muslims who live in Germany nor the almost 2 bilion Muslims in the world.

What I do belive they represent is violent religious extremism. And that is not limited to Muslims. You got Buddhists shooting people in Myanmar, Jews shooting people in the west bank, Hindu stoning people in India and even 1st world American Christians shooting on plant parenthood clinics...

We should be vigillant whenever a religions doctrine gets into conflict with what we understand are basic human rights. I am not confident we are. I am not comparing PIS to idk Hamas - but how many women have died in Poland due to their anti-abortion laws and how is that acceptable?

[–] gapbetweenus@feddit.de 8 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (6 children)

I am not comparing PIS to idk Hamas - but how many women have died in Poland due to their anti-abortion laws and how is that acceptable?

What is the point if saying that you don't compare and than compare anyway?

Sure there is also conservative Christianity that takes influence on society. The difference is it went trough reformation and there are more liberal (mainstream) versions of it. While one of the few (the only one I know about) liberal mosque in Germany is closing down due to threats.

load more comments (6 replies)
[–] gapbetweenus@feddit.de 14 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

Not sure why you are down-voted but Islam is as any other religion rather political and therefore influences society. Modern Islam is rather conservative and anti-democratic in its' core - so a big proportion of Muslim population is problematic if one wants to live in a modern, humanist and democratic society.

One solution is to create a more modern, European version of Islam - which is rather possible since Islam is rather decentralized.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] IWantToFuckSpez@kbin.social 11 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (5 children)

Yep just look at for example Indonesia where foreign Islamic influence from the Middle East has slowly gained a foothold in society and politics since the fall of the dictator Suharto. Indonesia is regressing and is introducing more draconian laws clearly pushed by conservative Muslims and it’s secular status is nowadays merely a facade.

load more comments (5 replies)
[–] HeartyBeast@kbin.social 6 points 10 months ago (1 children)

For context, this was a demonstration of 3,000 people ‘several of which’ apparently called for a kaliphate.

They’re a tiny idiotic minority of the Muslims living in Germany and you’re ‘this is exactly why I’m against Islam’ - which of course is exactly the response the radicals are hoping to trigger.

[–] gapbetweenus@feddit.de 6 points 10 months ago (18 children)

How is democracy going in Muslim majority countries? I can help you: Indonesia and Pakistan.

load more comments (18 replies)
[–] iain@feddit.nl 4 points 10 months ago

What an incredibly one-sided argument. Any conservative, no matter the religion is against LGTBQ. Look at America, or any conservative christian political party in Europe. Heck, even conservative atheists are often against LGTBQ.

But separate from that, even conservative muslims deserve to defend themselves against colonialism and genocide.

load more comments (8 replies)
[–] albert180@feddit.de 15 points 10 months ago

Please note, as posts related to the current conflict between Israel and Hamas are leading to many hateful comments or posts in violation of the server rules: You need to stay in scope of the Server Rules, it’s also unacceptable to deny the right of Existence of Israel, post antisemitic and/or racist stuff, In Germany it’s also a criminal offence to endorse or approve criminal offenses. If there are many comments here that violate the server rules, the post will be locked until all comments got moderated.

[–] tal@lemmy.today 9 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Several of the approximately 3,000 participants chanted slogans and held up posters calling for a "Khilafah" (caliphate) in Germany.

I'm not actually sure that one can do that without hitting conflict with Germany's Basic Law.

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] Jumi@lemmy.world 5 points 10 months ago
[–] DieguiTux8623@feddit.it 3 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Waiting for the next German elections.

load more comments (3 replies)
load more comments
view more: next ›