this post was submitted on 20 Oct 2023
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[–] reverendsteveii@lemm.ee 158 points 1 year ago (11 children)

If you're wondering how fun this could get, here's an article from the National Post arguing that poverty should be a qualifier for assisted suicide

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/canada-medical-aid-in-dying

Here's another where a woman with sensitivities to various chemical smells chose to die because she couldn't find an apartment that was affordable and didn't reek of noxious chemicals

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/woman-with-chemical-sensitivities-chose-medically-assisted-death-after-failed-bid-to-get-better-housing-1.5860579

The people who are worried about this aren't worried about people who genuinely want to die committing suicide. It was always nearly impossible to stop them anyway, and there's no way to change that. What we're worried about is people being pushed toward MAID because they've been systemically denied things they need to live that are absolutely available. We're worried about mentally ill people being told "do the right thing, don't be a burden" when they want to live. We're worried about suicide becoming the answer to problems that are caused by social and legislative conditions. We're worried about becoming the kind of society where, rather than help one another, it's expected that anyone who needs help just off themselves.

This is all coming from someone who tried twice and will be eternally grateful that I managed to fuck it up both times.

[–] nucleative@lemmy.world 36 points 1 year ago

Your comment brings up the most relevant point against MAID and it's clear we can be a better society than one which pushes people over the edge, or let's them fall despite their pleas.

I too am glad that you managed to fuck it up and that you're here with us.

[–] ParsnipWitch@feddit.de 16 points 1 year ago

Glad you pushed through this.

As someone with a disability, this is one of my biggest fears: Social pressure to seek assisted suicide.

[–] Zannsolo@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I think everybody deserves the right to end their life in a humane way.

I think you should never have to feel that suicide is your only option because material conditions outside of your control suck so hard.

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[–] Arcanus@lemmy.world 89 points 1 year ago (9 children)

This just sounds like a convenient way to get rid of homeless people

[–] Tylerdurdon@lemmy.world 40 points 1 year ago

"Addicted to drugs? Sounds like you want to die. Here, we'll help."

WCGW?

[–] pimento64@sopuli.xyz 31 points 1 year ago (11 children)

2024: "Canada has approved medically assisted death for people who are late on their rent"
2025: "Canada has approved medically assisted death for unhoused persons"
2026: "Canada has approved medically assisted death for ~~social parasites~~ the disabled"
2027: "Canada has approved medically assisted death for adults and children with autism"
2028: "Canada has approved medically assisted death for those suffering from the effects of institutionalized racism"
2029: "Canada has approved medically assisted death for any First Nations, black, non-land-owning, or poor people who aren't already dead yet, and it's optional through 2030"

[–] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago (18 children)

Yeah I support the right to a comfortable death, but there’s a hard line here of only for people who will die in the near future with or without intervention of a disease they’re suffering from a sufficiently advanced case of. And it needs strict controls including oversight by disabled people.

I’ve watched a person slowly and painfully waste away to a disease. But I’ve also seen people say my life isn’t worth living.

Choices still matter in drug addiction and it shouldn’t receive the final mercy we may choose to offer to the terminally ill who are unable to even end their own life. If they want to die then they should have to do it themselves without help.

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[–] gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 77 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Wow that’s… actually kinda fucked.

[–] dangblingus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 49 points 1 year ago (5 children)

It's Canada. We aren't the smiling plucky canucks that the international community thinks we are. We're tired, boss. We have some of the worst incidence rates for opioid addiction in the world, the most expensive real estate, politicians that actually don't do anything except self-deal and play culture war games, a massive overpopulation crisis, a jobs crisis, a grocery cost crisis (all told, they call it a cost of living crisis). They literally invented MAID so that people with terminal cancer can take the painless path out, but now it's being discussed for literally anyone who is feeling mentally unwell.

[–] elscallr@lemmy.world 23 points 1 year ago (5 children)

They literally invented MAID so that people with terminal cancer can take the painless path out, but now it’s being discussed for literally anyone who is feeling mentally unwell.

The people opposed to medically assisted death used this as an argument against it. I disagreed with them, didn't expect that to really happen.

I still don't disagree with its use here. If a person's life is not their own to take then they have no autonomy at all, but still.. it's jarring to see it actually being used this way.

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[–] kandoh@reddthat.com 44 points 1 year ago (7 children)

will be expanded next March to give access to people whose sole medical condition is mental illness, which can include substance use disorders.

So not drug use, but mental health conditions which the government considers drug addiction to be.

This will never be used by a drug addict. It will be used by people with untreatable and severe schizophrenia or similar afflictions. If you don't want to live in a nightmare world with no hope I think it should be your right to end it peacefully.

I get suicide makes people uncomfortable, but you're uncomfortable with it in a cozy apartment and good health. You think your protecting vulnerable people from a big scary government, but you're just forcing them to suffer needlessly.

[–] reverendsteveii@lemm.ee 23 points 1 year ago (6 children)

Given that the intent here is to make assisted suicide legal for people who by definition are not of sound mind what protections are in place for people who would qualify for assisted suicide by way of mental health issues but also might not be fully competent to make this decision themselves? Who can step in and say that the patient actually is competent, and by what standards is that judged? Who can step in and say a patient that wants assisted suicide is not competent, or has been manipulated? I'm not worried about people who are genuinely suffering, the fact is we've never been able to stop them from killing themselves and we never will be. I'm worried about someone putting poison in the ear of someone with a treatable disorder, convincing them to "do the right thing and not be a burden".

[–] Kedly@lemm.ee 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Fight to make these services easier to access then. If they are easier to access, the poison wont take. If you waste all your pooitical energy fighting this, and then dont have enough to fight for better social supports and easier access to them, well then you've just made things worse

Edit: I've chosen life, I know how dark depression and hopelessness gets, but I've also been abandoned by my family and original community, and have spent almost a decade now being my own support network in a metropolis where I cant keep a community for very long. Our social support systems are GARBAGE right now and if I ever DID end up chosing death, I wouldnt want some bleeding heart like you who's going to fight this instead of making community supports easier to access blocking me from ending my suffering. Living alone with multiple different conditions that prvent you from being stabily employable is fucking hard, and if it's not something you've chosen its cruel to leave someone with no way out if it

Edit 2: I like the downvotes with no comments, really shows that people want to just be against something to feel good about themselves without having to think about the consequences of denying said thing

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[–] zaphod@lemmy.ca 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Good to see at least someone around here has some fucking clue regarding the purpose of this law...

  1. Just "feeling mentally unwell", as another commenter put it, is not enough to qualify. The law specifically requires the applicant "experience unbearable physical or mental suffering from your illness, disease, disability or state of decline that cannot be relieved under conditions that you consider acceptable" and "be in an advanced state of decline that cannot be reversed"
  2. If someone makes a "request for medical assistance in dying, 2 independent medical practitioners (physicians or nurse practitioners) must assess it."

From: https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/health-services-benefits/medical-assistance-dying.html

And that's just a couple of the high bars one must clear to qualify.

But, I can say this about Lemmy: given the quality of the discussion on this post, this place really has turned into an excellent replacement for Reddit!

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[–] vasametropolis@lemmy.world 40 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Honestly just seems like a tee up so the government can "persuade" these people to kill themselves. It's a bold strategy, Cotton.

Could be a dry run for when life gets so bad in the next few years that people just look for the exit.

[–] Perhapsjustsniffit@lemmy.world 37 points 1 year ago (5 children)

"Kill em all". Canadian here. Disabled folks like myself have been taking this route for a while now simply because they can't afford to live any longer. That's pretty fucked. Canada doesn't want anything to do with us or the "junkies". They'd rather we die.

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[–] Ketchup@reddthat.com 34 points 1 year ago

The government: Can’t function well enough to perform tasks that increase the GDP? We have a drug for that.

[–] polygon6121@lemmy.world 34 points 1 year ago (5 children)

It is a bit unfair that only drug addicts get this. Assisted suicide should be available for the general population.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago (3 children)

The article says that the mentally ill also get this option.

[–] Duamerthrax@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

Have any of their politicians taken them up on the offer?

[–] polygon6121@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

Aha ok. Thank you for clarifying 🙌

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[–] lukzak@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Getting addicted to drugs isn't exactly an insurmountable barrier

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[–] hubobes@sh.itjust.works 33 points 1 year ago (8 children)

Why is there always such a shitshow when it comes to these laws? In Switzerland we have EXIT which is also assisted suicide. Nobody cares that it exists, it is just a reasonable system.

[–] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 25 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Because the conditions applied always seem to be revolving around removing undesirables within Canada. This example makes people fear that Canadian hospital workers will begin pressuring drug addict patients to kill themselves, or even darker, signing them up for euthanasia without their knowing or consent.

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[–] JoBo@feddit.uk 27 points 1 year ago (4 children)

This feels very click-baity. As far as I can tell, the assisted suicide law is being extended to include people in unbearable pain from mental health problems, not just physical ones. Because substance abuse is classified as a mental health problem, people with drug addictions would have the right to request assisted suicide under this extension to the law.

The objections being raised speak to the same fears many disabled people have about legalising assisted suicide: that people struggling with their health might be, or feel, pressured to end it for the convenience of others, not because it is the best thing for themselves. I assume that the existing law attempts to address this properly, with safeguards against external pressures.

Assisted suicide is most valuable for people who do not have the physical capacity to do it themselves, and do not want to put a loved one at risk of a murder charge. In practice, most people with a serious drug problem can quite easily end it themselves if they want to. Access to assisted suicide doesn't seem particularly likely to change much, except perhaps offer a more peaceful, dignified death for those who want it anyway.

[–] willybe@lemmy.ca 10 points 1 year ago

This article seems to be pushing the conservative narrative. They make a leap from mental health to eugenics, which is a stretch. I call BS

Denying the people the right to die with dignity is a sick perversion of morals.

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[–] IverCoder@lemm.ee 24 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Canada is several months away from medically assisted "suicide" for people who don't support currently elected politicians

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[–] Acters@lemmy.world 24 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I do hate this, but at least dying is not an illegal thing to do to oneself, but at the same time, I don't want people to die, even if they decided to. On top of that, there has to be a better way to deal with addiction than allowing someone to just die. Plus, there is a stupid loophole brewing where people who decide not to die could be documented as wanting to die by some powerful individuals. All around, a bad thing to legalize and the administrative problems it would bring

[–] Mango@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

I don't want people to suffer even if they decided to. There's this stupid loophole where people are convicted of crimes they didn't do because the government is theatre.

All around, people should maintain their own propriety.

[–] ChiefSinner@lemm.ee 23 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Lord have mercy. Canada has lost their minds.

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[–] Eric_Pollock@lemmy.world 18 points 1 year ago
[–] Smoogs@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

This opens some uncomfortable doors for people who have a severe negative and abusive view towards drug addicts.

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[–] fosforus@sopuli.xyz 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] dym_sh@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

in america its only cop-assisted

[–] who8mydamnoreos@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Just roll out the suicide booths already

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[–] beaubbe@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

That sounds fucked-up, no? Is it an uncureable condition?

[–] gregorum@lemm.ee 11 points 1 year ago

Addiction isn’t a condition which can, generally speaking, be cured. It’s a chronic condition and is often genetic. While many choose a lifetime of treatment, it’s a constant struggle, and the quality of life varies widely.

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[–] weirdwallace75@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

Huh. In the UK, they just put them on waiting lists until they die.

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-67087906

[–] doyadig@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

For the last two months I’ve been seriously considering taking my own life. What holds me back is that I’ll severely fuck up my loving family, my mum, dad and brothers and my girlfriend/ex-girlfriend (it’s complicated). It would hurt them so much. If it wasn’t for them I would have already done it.

So what I want to know is why shouldn’t I just end my 33 year old Swedish life right now when there’s just too much stuff to battle. Before I wanted to battle my way through this. But I can’t take this anymore. I’ve never posted something like this before. Sorry everyone. I don’t know why I did it.

[–] S_204@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

I hope you have someone to talk to about this. Your life is worth living, the people who you don't want to hurt love you and want you in their lives even if it's complicated.

Wishing you all the best.

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[–] Smacks@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

That's fucked

[–] Portosian@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I'd be worried that this will be used as a screen to kill "undesirables" without scrutiny.

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