this post was submitted on 19 Oct 2023
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188
Fugees rapper says lawyer's use of AI helped tank his case, pushes for new trial (www.aol.com)
submitted 11 months ago by Salamendacious@lemmy.world to c/technology@lemmy.world
32 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

A multimillion-dollar conspiracy trial that stretched across the worlds of politics and entertainment is now touching on the tech world with arguments that a defense attorney for a Fugees rapper bungled closing arguments by using an artificial intelligence program.

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[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 91 points 11 months ago (2 children)

I saw an article from ars that tracked the AI company down, it's registered to the same office as the lawyer, and immediately started advertising this case bragging about it being used in an actual trial, no mention of how much it fucked up and the client was guilty.

He's got a pretty good shot at this, and the lawyer should 100% face consequences. Even if he just used it, but especially if he owns the AI company he used. Doubly so for not disclosing the connection or informing the client it was being used.

[–] Touching_Grass@lemmy.world 20 points 11 months ago (6 children)

But how do you tell if the AI performed worse or better than the lawyer. What is the bar here for competence. What if it was a losing case regardless and this is just a way to exploit the system for a second trial.

[–] Salamendacious@lemmy.world 23 points 11 months ago (1 children)

That's what the appeals process is for.

[–] logicbomb@lemmy.world 15 points 11 months ago (2 children)

I don't know about this particular lawyer, but I have heard that some lawyers will try novel court strategies, knowing that it's a win-win situation. If the strategy works, then their clients benefit, and if the strategy doesn't work, their clients get an appeal for having ineffective counsel where they normally wouldn't have an appeal.

[–] Neato@kbin.social 9 points 11 months ago (2 children)

If a client gets an appeal for ineffective counsel how is that counsel not brought up before the bar for review? That seems like a death knell for a lawyer.

[–] logicbomb@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago

People don't generally get sanctioned for making honest mistakes. I didn't say that a lawyer would tank the case on purpose, just that they'd try a new strategy. If no lawyers were allowed to try new strategies without facing penalties, that also seems like a bad system.

[–] Spiralvortexisalie@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago

Not sure if there is a procedure for when a lawyer is practicing, I have never heard of a bar referral after a ruling on a motion for ineffective assistance in NY, but I have heard of retiring attorneys landing on the grenade so to speak and writing affidavits claiming that anything they may have touched in the slightest was somehow deficient, spoiled or tainted by their involvement if it can get a shot at more billable work/appeal.

[–] Salamendacious@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago

I had never heard that. Is there a name for that? Or do you have a place I can read more about it?

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 22 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Well, the lawyer gave interviews after his client was guilty. Bragging about how instead of spending hours on it he only spent "seconds" and that the AI would mean he could have a lot more clients and make a lot more money.

So, it's going to be pretty hard for him to now argue he put in just as much effort.

[–] Tetsuo@jlai.lu 16 points 11 months ago (1 children)

In my opinion, how good the AI performed is irrelevant. What is is the fact that an AI was used instead of the lawyer.

If it is proven that the lawyer used what the AI delivered verbatim then it doesn't matter how good that text was. The client has the right to have a lawyer, not an AI pretending to be a lawyer.

[–] vzq@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 11 months ago

What is the bar here

I see what you did there

[–] Saneless@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Good point. If a lawyer is stupid enough to use AI, he's probably too stupid to be a good lawyer in the first place

[–] Touching_Grass@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago

I think its a good use. I think the idiotic thing is how it was used. It sounds like he didn't validate it after which might just be unfamiliar with using new tech. Might be a lawyer looking to get a new trial. Might be just pure incompetence. But I still think its a good use if used correctly

[–] JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

In this case, it seems to be much worse, inventing reference cases and making nonsensical arguments.

https://youtu.be/oqSYljRYDEM

[–] PipedLinkBot@feddit.rocks -1 points 11 months ago

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[–] Salamendacious@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago

That was mentioned briefly in the article. I was about to look into it a little more but I got side tracked. Thanks!

[–] Kodemystic@lemmy.kodemystic.dev 33 points 11 months ago (3 children)

That dude on the right looks like low tier android or somethin.

[–] Piecemakers3Dprints@lemmy.world 9 points 11 months ago

Low-tier cosmetic alterations at bargain prices tend to have that result, I guess?

[–] BowtiesAreCool@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago

He looks like the alien from Star Trek Insurrection that is obsessed with being young forever and stretches his skin out

[–] Rooty@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Yeah, I never though actual humans could fall into the uncanny valley.

[–] coffeebiscuit@lemmy.world 23 points 11 months ago (2 children)

That gray dude also looks ai generated.

[–] Salamendacious@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago

Weekend at Bernie's 12?

[–] 6daemonbag@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 11 months ago

He looks like the mangled villain in Red Dragon. You know, the guy Hannibal the Cannibal fucked up with a piece of glass?

[–] Candelestine@lemmy.world 19 points 11 months ago (1 children)

... aol still exists...? Huh. TIL.

[–] Salamendacious@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago

Oh how the mighty have fallen