this post was submitted on 13 Oct 2023
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Android

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[–] nodsocket@lemmy.world 97 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Imagine routing all your traffic through a google server.

[–] nicman24@kbin.social 42 points 11 months ago (2 children)

well the most used custom dns is 8.8.8.8

[–] pandacoder@lemmy.world 15 points 11 months ago (2 children)

I mean this only routes a small amount to their servers, the actual data to use a website isn't sent to 8.8.8.8.

[–] nicman24@kbin.social 14 points 11 months ago

still name resolutions is a big amount of data

[–] HKayn@dormi.zone 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

What is Google gonna get from encrypted HTTPS requests that they don't already get from the associated DNS requests?

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[–] skullgiver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

[This comment has been deleted by an automated system]

[–] Exec@pawb.social 87 points 11 months ago (2 children)

So third-party VPN apps should be able to provide a connection without a persistent notification now, right?
Right?

[–] out@lemmynsfw.com 30 points 11 months ago

It's already possible, for example the WireGuard app doesn't even support notifications at all. You can also just hide the notification or remove it's permissions, works great for Tailscale.

The Android documentation recommends a persistent notification for the UX but it's not needed. https://developer.android.com/guide/topics/connectivity/vpn

[–] ChaoticNeutralCzech@feddit.de 11 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (3 children)

If they’re root, they already can. Like Google Play and other root/system apps that can install apps without the pop-up.

It is an obvious double measure but it’s been around for a long time, and it’s not too insecure or annoying unless manufacturers install malware as system apps and/or disallow locking the boatloader (they do, sadly).

[–] lemmyvore@feddit.nl 14 points 11 months ago (1 children)

If they’re root, they already can. Like Google Play and other root/system apps that can install apps without the pop-up.

Fun reminder that the Facebook system apps included on many phones can do that too. Look for system apps called "Facebook Bridge", "Facebook stub", "Facebook App Installer", "Facebook App Manager" etc.

[–] limerod@reddthat.com 6 points 11 months ago

Don't you mean: Meta app installer, meta app manager, meta services, etc.

[–] Exec@pawb.social 6 points 11 months ago (1 children)

That's what I meant - if Google's own stuff is allowed to run in the background then third-party stuff should be allowed too.

[–] ChaoticNeutralCzech@feddit.de 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I would not like everything to run as root. But an option to root your phone without too much hassle and make any changes to app permissions would be great.

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[–] shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit@sh.itjust.works 44 points 11 months ago (1 children)

a persistent notification is no longer required. A key icon in the status bar is the only indication you get that the VPN is enabled

You still get the key icon. Is the fuss that it now takes more screen taps to reach the on/off, rather than just using the persistent notification?

[–] limerod@reddthat.com 29 points 11 months ago (7 children)

The fuss is that 3rd party apps need a persistent notification to stay alive. But, because Google owns pixels, it can skip that step and be less intrusive/visible, which others can not.

[–] out@lemmynsfw.com 19 points 11 months ago (21 children)

The WireGuard and tailscale apps work great for me without a persistent notification.

WireGuard doesn't support notifications at all. Tailscale does and by default it shows a persistent notification but you can just silence it or turn it off in the apps notification settings.

Persistent notification thus seems to be unnecessary for VPNs to function, Google/Android dev documentation recommends a persistent notification for the UX but it's not needed. https://developer.android.com/guide/topics/connectivity/vpn

In conclusion it appears that third party apps can indeed provide a VPN service without a notification.

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[–] kadu@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

Apps that target modern Android APIs do not need a persistent notification.

Apps that insist on building against Android 5 targets in 2023 do, yes.

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[–] ShortFuse@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Cite your sources because that's not how persistent notification works. PIA doesn't need it. It sounds like a poorly written app.

Edit: DNS66 as well.

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[–] Polyester6435@lemmy.blahaj.zone 24 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Persistent notification is one of the best parts about using an always on VPN. You can check the status really quickly

[–] Zerfallen@lemmy.world 27 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Would be better if it were optional. The little key in the status area is more than enough indication for me. A persistent notification is not a notification, it's a hack.

[–] BearOfaTime@lemm.ee 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

The hack is the aggressive battery optimization in some phones that don't respect the native Android battery optimization settings and still kill apps.

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[–] skullgiver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

[This comment has been deleted by an automated system]

[–] ShortFuse@lemmy.world 16 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

I don't understand the article. They either aren't clearly explaining the issue or just heavily misinformed.

I have Google One and PIA. Both do the same thing, which is add a key to the top right of the screen. To me, that's like a persistent notification.

PIA has never needed to use the actual persistent notification API. There's no reason to. Persistent notification is for application that don't want their UI Window to terminate when Android gets memory pressured, or when wanting to use a local service (eg: Location or Orientation) when not the main foreground application. I can kill the PIA Window (swipe up from recent apps) and the VPN is still running.

If Google One were able to activate VPN without changing my status bar, that's a different story, and that's not the case.

Edit: DNS66 as well

[–] anonymous_bot@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

From what I understand, Google One had its own persistent notification (left side) when using the VPN as well as the normal key icon (right side). So now it just has the latter.

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[–] itsJoelle@lemmy.world 11 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Weird, my Pixel 6a currently doesn't have a persistent notification when I use Proton. Is this a GrapheneOS thing? Just curious.

[–] FutileRecipe@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Have you enabled notifications for it? I use Proton with GrapheneOS. I keep the ProtonChannel notifications disabled normally as I don't need to see it. Enabling it, I see the persistent notification as expected.

[–] itsJoelle@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Can confirm. I was able to replicate the behavior. Cheers

What reason would there be to enable notifications?

[–] histic@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

for zero tier or tailscale it's nice when you forget that you are connected and it's causing problems for whatever reason

[–] Fuck_u_spez_@sh.itjust.works 4 points 11 months ago

You guys don't get the key icon in the status bar?

[–] heavymetalsheep@lemmy.world 8 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Lol that’s like saying worlds biggest virus creator which makes him billions of dollars now also providing anti virus for free.

[–] Onii-Chan@kbin.social 7 points 11 months ago (11 children)

Exactly lmao. I don't trust Google with shit, so I'm still going to install GrapheneOS and Mullvad as soon as I get the 8.

[–] netchami@sh.itjust.works 2 points 11 months ago

I second Graphene and Mullvad.

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[–] kvothelu@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago

I am on pixel 6a and using third party vpn. there is no persistent notification. only key icon. I don't see the issue here.

[–] djghettoredneck@burggit.moe 2 points 11 months ago

What if you don't want it?

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