They're gonna use this to jail and subjugated the unhoused populations aren't they?
this post was submitted on 12 Oct 2023
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Yes. This is written to police the homeless exclusively.
I mean, I don't disagree with the principle (haven't read it to see if it's actually feasible though).
Either a homeless person suffering from addiction and mental health issues seeks help, and gets better, or they can't get better and go to prison where they are sheltered and fed and kept off the streets where they probably would die in a few years anyways, or commit a crime that may harm someone and go to prison anyways?
It depends if the state is willing to pay for that help, because if not it's just a law to shuttle everyone into prison.
Federal courts have already ruled that you can't throw people in jail for being homeless, so I don't see that happening. The headline mentions treatment which doesn't have to be in-patient necessarily.
I'm definitely on the fence here as I'm no fan of authoritarianism, but on the other hand I'm no fan of homeless meth addicts living in a clapped out RV on the side of the road, stealing catalytic converters by night and standing in the road shouting at cars by day. Something has to give here as people like this have been taking advantage of this messy situation.
Federal courts have already ruled that you can’t throw people in jail for being homeless,
No, that doesnt stop them from making up some bullshit charge though. This is America, afterall.
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Define mental illness, define addiction, define help, define force.
It depends. Define define.
Seriously... No hyperbole, I'd imagine the majority of people that would enthusiastically vote for trump in this next electron after he led a violent insurrection to try to end American democracy (and had actual discussed plans for the military to shoot American civilians if the overthrow were successful and there was an opposition movement) actively suffer from a listed disorder and are in need of treatment.
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expands the definition of “gravely disabled” to include people who are unable to provide themselves basic needs such as food and shelter
So if you can't afford rent in CA, you are gravely disabled.
Sounds like a 'great' idea. All cops have to do is say you misuse drugs or alcohol or get a someone to diagnose you with a mental illness and BAM your no longer free. I see no possible way for this to be abused. /s
If I ever lose my job I'm moving to CA before my meds wear off.
Interesting how you dropped the second half of that sentence to try to hammer it into your point about "oh em gee teh gubmint is gunna git me".
The new law, which reforms the state’s conservatorship system, expands the definition of “gravely disabled” to include people who are unable to provide themselves basic needs such as food and shelter due to an untreated mental illness or unhealthy drugs and alcohol use.
How is 'unhealthy' defined?
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202320240SB43
How about you read the bill yourself instead of asking some dipshit on the internet to tell you what to think?
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Looks like they addressed exactly that in the second paragraph of their comment.
I agree. While this sounds great on paper, there's a chance for it to get abused. And we all know that it will end up being abused.
In Canada, we recommend MAID (medical assistance in dying) if you can't afford food and shelter.
I wish I was kidding. The government literally recommends you use their suicide chambers if you can't pay your bills and have a mental illness.
Do they accept medical tourists?
Asking for a friend...
Forcing people to get help doesn't help if that help isn't actually available. I've had several issues over the years seeing a therapist because there is so much demand and very few therapists. Most of my appointments are rescheduled 6 months away, multiple times because I show up and the doctor is called away.
theres few therapists, even less good therapists.
Good therapists exists, but unless you are incredibly lucky, its a chore and financial burden trying to find them.
More like unless you're incredibly rich you will never be able to afford one.
Not to mention therapists working in the public sector do not get paid well, have the largest case loads, and get the most severe cases. It's very easy to burn out within a few years and many quickly move into private practice.
It could be good if it gets mentally ill people help more often. The issue that could happen is if it is used to claim people are mentally ill who are not.
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Maybe if you hadn't axed mental health services in the 80s this paradox wouldn't have arisen.
Forcing people is always the best way to get good results. 🙄
There is a not unreasonable argument that allowing the mentally ill to "choose" to become addicted junkies living on the street in an extremely hostile and dangerous environment is not exactly the epitome of merciful empathy.
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As a Californian who also works in the ED, there are levels to mental illness. Clearly you haven't seen the worst of it.
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Sure is neat what Newsom doesn't veto.
While this might be an important tool to help many who need it, I can't help but wonder if this essentially criminalizes opting out of capitalism. Anyone that is homeless and uses drugs or has a mental illness can now be involuntarily committed, denying them the right to decide on that sort of life.
How many people are going homeless while giving themselves a plethora of other issues all in the name of sticking it to capitalism??
I have no idea. I'm not suggesting people often become homeless because of ideological reasons, however many do opt out of the rat race and choose not to work and participate economically, which is functionally equivalent.
Maybe not capitalism in name but some vague idea of "the system". The system that raised rents and lowered their wages and forced them into homelessness, and continually punishes them for being so. Addiction and other anti-social behaviors could be an act of rebellion against the pressures of this system. Not all of those pressures are capitalistic, some are just basic requirements for any society, but a large chunk of them are.
Opting out of capitalism does not give you the right to set up shanty towns in public spaces, or leave needles and feces all over the place. This law is necessary to give our public spaces back to everyone.
- We've criminalized merely existing in public spaces for too long, and I'm not aware of viable and accessible alternatives if one cannot afford shelter.
- One need not leave needles and feces about to be committed under this law.
- I'm troubled by the stereotypes regarding homeless people being promoted in this thread.
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They're criminalizing mental illness. That's California for you.
is CA gonna pay for it?
Why would Canada pay for it?
Cause they are our friendly neighbors to the north, eh? isn't that what this is all aboot?
Well yeah, who else?
I mean it's implied that they are going to make the mentally unstable pay for their own forced 'help'.
What? Where?
Literally how US healthcare works. If you pass out on a street and some kind soul calls you an ambulance, where the hospital has to perform life saving surgery, you're on the hook for every penny despite all of this happening without your consent. Of course there's recourse to have most of that debt forgiven because you didn't choose this, whereas fuck that poor shmuck who elected to have their cancer treated.
In other countries they're just happy you're alive and able to walk out in one piece.
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Love what I'm seeing out of California
IS THIS THE EPISODE OF TREE HOUSE OF HORRORS WHERE FLANDERS IS SUPREME LEADER AND LOBOTOMIZES THE TOWN
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