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If we stopped the economy and stopped all emissions worldwide, this progression would still occur for more than 2 decades.
This is just the beginning for stuff we did since y2k.
By the time we actually make serious change, it will be far too late.
Happy Sunday. Enjoy football.
Forget the progression.
Getting back to pre-industrial CO2 levels will take millenia if we don't do anything.
If we start spending 50% of our energy budget (and let's say that energy generation magically became all renewables and nuclear starting tomorrow) on scrubbing all the CO2 out of the air, we'll still need over a century to get back to pre industrial levels, and that is not counting CO2 storage and or conversions to (for example) plastics. If we include that too then it'll be multiple centuries.
Let that sink on for a second. No matter what we do, none of us, none of our children, none of our children's children will ever see normal CO2 levels in their lives.
And in the meantime we bake, loads of animals will die, food production will be fucked up, and we'll get mass starvation which likely will trigger war for food resources.
I'm painting a pretty picture, don't I? I do fear it's going to be even worse than what I see right now because until now, most climate change predictions actually turned out worse.
We might stand a chance with atmospheric engineering. Start seeding the upper atmosphere with sulfides. They'll cause acid rain over time, but at least block enough sunlight to stop us from cooking. It's done before (80's pollution, volcanos) and it works and we'll need it sooner rather than later
Yeah that's a major thing that people aren't getting. Scientists writing the reports specifically published the lower possibilities because they saw earlier publications get tarred as extremist and ridiculous. So now that we're actually getting consequences everyone is surprised that it's happening faster and more violently than publicly predicted.
You painted a perfect picture. A wordsmith I am not and loved your version better.
All of us on Lemmy collectively can’t make a fingernail dent into the problem. We have no power to stop it. If we did, we’re labeled terrorists against the economy.
Before the wars about food occur there will be wars about water. There are already assume pretty heated situations. Ethiopias grand Renaissance dam and it's conflict with Egypt. All countries connected to Euphrat and Tigris have a big war potential too.
Start seeding the upper atmosphere with sulfides. They'll cause acid rain over time, but at least block enough sunlight to stop us from cooking.
Can you elaborate more about this? Don't sulfides burn up into SO2, which is classified as a greenhouse gas?
Don't invest in the future, don't have kids. Be here for a good time not a long time. Fuck the world.
That's kinda where I'm at, but I already have kids, and now they're having kids. I worry about them.
Sad part is we've more or less figured out on paper how to cut our emissions while retaining a fairly high quality of life. Not perfect obviously and we'll lose a lot of the amenities people in developed countries have gotten used to, but to say the path to sustainability is uncharted is simply not true, and it could have been implemented 20 years ago, it can also be implemented today. But it would require gutting the wealth of the rich, totally overhauling the economy, government, and society as a whole, and everyone from all socioeconomic statuses agreeing that it should be done. So it's basically impossible under capitalism. Most of the upper class/upper middle class people in the West won't even entertain the idea of not owning a car, living in an apartment, or cutting out meat from their diets, let alone the radical changes needed for our species to actually be sustainable.
2 decades is likely optimistic. 5 is probably more likely. that said at what point do we just reach absolute nihilism and just stop giving a fuck. We're well past the point of no return. Our emissions are still INCREASING despite knowledge that it's going to destroy the liveable planet as we currently know it causing mass extinction events.
If we don't have any sense of urgency at this point, I can't see it starting anytime soon.
Everyday we delay we make it worse. what's worse than catastrophic?
I'll point out we did have a brief decline in emissions during covid and in 2009 during GFC but that was accidental becuse people stopped spending and travelling.
By the time we actually make serious change, it will be far too late.
Optimistic of you to assume that we will ever make serious change.
We will, one way or another. At some point simply enough people will have died that we will stop making things meaningfully worse 🤷♂️
I'm surprised that there isn't an open source guide on how to be an effective eco terrorist and what the most vulnerable global chock points are. People have gone to war over less.
Oh there are some out there just the people who want to go to war over this are poor
What also worries me is that there's a lot of talk about the environment collapsing in a century; however, given how things are going, I'm starting to suspect these people are seeing exponential change and slapping on a more linear approximation to predict what will happen. No one really knows what's going to happen, but we do know that it's happening right now and all we can do is try to protect what's left from the absolutely moronic shitheads that have their heads so far up their ass they look almost normal until they start speaking.
If we stopped the economy and stopped all emissions worldwide, this progression would still occur for more than 2 decades.
The economy did basically stop for a month in March 2020, and pollution dropped incredibly.
Change is possible. We just don't want it.
It's worse. The rich want civilization to break, so they can become the new aristocracy - ruling their own countries, having their own armies.
If that’s their plan it’s incredibly stupid. They’re really underestimating the lethality of ecological collapse, and overestimating the ability of their wealth to mitigate it. Their best bet at survival is being holed up in a bunker by themselves living an austere subsistence life with maybe some close family. There’s not going to be anything to rule over.
In the end, the rich and powerful only live in wealth because of the supply chain and, ultimately, the workers.
If civilization crumbles, so does their little empire.
What's funny is that in a real collapse. Their skills are the least useful.
If that’s their plan it’s incredibly stupid.
It's not, like most things it's a lot dumber and simpler. Rich people don't fight or organize as a class, but they don't need too. The wealthy just have to look after themselves, and by doing so will vicariously establish benefits for other rich people.
I think in regards to climate change the wealthy are experiencing a malicious version of the bystander effect. Where they on some level understand their own endangerment, but expect a higher power to fix it for them.
However, when a government does attempt a fix that is personally detrimental to their financial health, they take it personally and become reactionary.
They are indeed building huge bunkers in large numbers
Anyone who thinks wealthy equals smart should not have a driver's license or be out in public without a handler.
The richest person that I personally know was unable to finish highschool, but is the most ruthless, cold hearted motherfucker I ever crossed paths with. Of course he doesn't believe in climate change.
It's too bad there isn't some huge forest somewhere that would be a big carbon sink and help stop the river from getting so warm. I hear there used to be though...
I don't want the rainforest to be deforested, but it's kinda fucked up to tell all the South American countries covered in trees they aren't able to do exactly what Europe did. Most of Europe used to be covered in trees 200+ years ago and they deforested it all for industrialization and profit. America cleared untold amounts of fields for farming and building suburbs. Just because this was done before global warming was a real concern we now all feel entitled to tell countries like Brazil they can't do the same. It's basically just the same old story of the west wanting to exploit the developing worlds resources for themselves all over again. Just now the resource is air.
True, however letting them make the same mistakes just because America or Europe did isn't the right answer either. All 3 regions should be reforested and all push towards deforestation should be stopped.
While I agree that it's a bit hypocritical, we didn't know what clearing those forests would do in the Renaissance and Industrial Revolution. It wasn't widely known until the post war era. Now that we do know we need to act.
But we shouldn't just tell them they can't do stuff. We should be pouring massive amounts of money into helping them skip over coal, farm vertically, and get away from slash and burn farming.
There's more we can do than just tell them they're being bad.
Ya, the whole issue is there's almost zero willingness to help them economically to avoid deforestation. It's much cheaper to just tell them not to and that it's bad.
But we shouldn't just tell them they can't do stuff. We should be pouring massive amounts of money into helping them skip over coal, farm vertically, and get away from slash and burn farming.
Not to be rude, but South America's energy production is overall greener than many developed countries. If anything, it's you guys that need to start reforesting, going greener and lowering your carbon emissions.
It's almost like, we as a global entity, need to provide these countries with the resources to protect their environment and still prosper.
But the billionaires are buying carbon offsets when they fly around on their private jets. Surely that's doing the trick right? There's no way that entire concept is a scam and doesn't do anything.
I understand what you're saying, but why is there so little replanting everywhere?
And from what I've read, replanting projects sponsored by the timber industry, planting all pine trees six feet apart, created the ideal setting for massive wildfires. I may have the details wrong but that was the gist.
Just plopping trees down won't cut it anyway. The saying "can't see the forest for the trees" is so apt because a forest is so much more than just trees.
Here in Sweden we've long since cut down our forests and replanted them with industry wood, then we got shocked when pests started eating the entire buffet we served for them.
Bingo on that one. We rose to economic power before the problem became acute and now want to dictate that other countries can't do what we did to get here.
Meanwhile we have the resources and technology to mitigate some of the effects of global warming for our citizens and the global south will end up bearing the brunt of it.
Nevermind all the birds and insects dying, the crop and literal drinking water shortages. We’re gonna have front row seats to the collapse of civilization as we know it. What a fucked up time to be alive for anyone like me who cares deeply about nature. This shit is ruining my mental health.
Humanity does not deserve to exist. It has been decided, greed is our great filter. If there were 100 people to blame for all of this I could go out and kill them, but 100 million? What the hell can any of us do about that?
We still have the whole republican party denying climate change.. these people are hopelessly fucking greedy and stupid.
Hear, hear. Something that comes close to to how I feel about us killing our biosphere is a quote from Paul Ehrlich: "What we're losing are our only known companions in the entire universe".
I am so enchanted by all of the weird little lifeforms we are supposed to be sharing our world with. All their amazing intricacies, beauty, and evolutionary history. All of it (but especially birds! Birds are my favourite). It's so alien to me that people don't give a shit and, to the detriment of everything else, only care about looking inwards to other humans.
That was a ramble! Quite sleep deprived and loopy over here.
What we’re losing are our only known companions in the entire universe
That is one hell of a quote and absolutely on point. I'll remember this one.
Shit, when you put it that way...we've really fucked up.
It breaks my fucking heart man I’m about to cry just thinking about it. Why don’t people care? It’s so easy to just call them stupid/ignorant, but is that really all there is to it?
While this water temp is concerning, the Amazon river is also dammed preventing the dolphins from fleeing to cooler water.
I was wondering why they didn't just leave...
So long and thanks for all the fish.
Kinda ironic that Amazon.com is killing its namesake through its carbon footprint
Ma'am, this is so horrible. I don't even know what to say anymore.
So long, and thanks for all the fish?
These dolphins truly did leave as the earth was being destroyed. What an unfortunate parallel between the books and life.
I'm clinging to hope, and working in a relevant field to try to solve our energy issues as an engineer.