The ability to open a car door mechanically, from both inside and outside, should always be obvious, without having to find any instructions.
this post was submitted on 21 Aug 2023
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Yeah, how is this not illegal? This seems really dangerous in the event of a crash.
Who cares if it’s legal….. the Muskinator thinks it’s ‘cool’ 😎
Airplanes don't have mechanical connections to their control surfaces anymore. They use triple or quadruple redundant fly by wire systems. But they're that safe because of the FAA, not just out of the goodness of their heart. We need car regulation bodies to be closer to the FAA in stringency.
IMO the biggest difference between standards in flying and driving is the training and requirements toward operators. Imagine having a DUI being a strong indicator that you'll never drive again, or basic driver training taking 50 driven hours, in addition to stringent theoretical tests.
Or people needing to check their cars for safe operation every time they start it, and omitting it being a crime.
Or a significant percentage of the population being just medically disqualified from driving, especially over 60 years of age.
It would be a different world for sure.
I've always been strongly of the opinion that driving is a privilege, not a right and you have to prove you can properly handle the vehicle to strict standards. These vehicles kill and injure so many people every year because of awful driving and awareness.
Now public transit on the other hand, should be a right.
It's no different than a steering wheel and brakes. It doesn't matter if there's some advanced electronics augmenting (or even controlling) those systems: there need to be a bomb-proof mechanical linkage as a backup.
Tesla doesn't use steer by wire, but some other car company do. It's actually really nice for having a high steering ratio at low speeds and a low one at high speeds to be more precise.
Plus breaks have been brake by wire for years now without mechanical connection.
Brake by wire isn't really very common afaik. Mercedes had EBC at some point but stopped using that system. It also had the downside that the SBC unit had to be replaced every so often to guarantee a working brake system.
From the wiki:
Ford, General Motors, and most other manufacturers use the same general design, with the exception of Honda, who designed a notably different design.
Brake-by-wire is used in most common hybrid and electric vehicles produced since 1998 including all Toyota, Ford, and General Motors Electric and hybrid models.
Seems pretty common to me.
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"Brake by wire" doesn't mean there isn't a mechanical linkage, just that the "primary" means of transmitting brake pressure is electrical.
Between safety regulations, liability, the the potential for a PR disaster there isn't a single road legal car for sale (yet) that doesn't have a backup hydraulic or other mechanical system -- the brakes must work if there's a catastrophic electrical failure.
I can't find which, but some vehicles seem to not have mechanical backup.
EHBs can be implemented by-wire, without legacy hydraulic systems and mechanical connections. In such a case, fail-operational redundancy is implemented, allowing the vehicle to brake even if some of the brake systems fail.[1]
https://www.mdpi.com/2227-9717/11/4/994
https://www.sae.org/publications/technical-papers/content/981109/
EHBs are fairly common, but they don't preclude the use of a backup master cylinder system. A pure EHB has been a "goal" for a long time since eliminating the master cylinder and linkages would simplify design and manufacturing cost. So far nobody has been able to convince regulators or their legal team they can sell a car without one, though.
Pure electrical throttles have been the standard for a while now.
Goddamit my whole life i thought by wire meant like physical tensile wires, that the power was transmitted through tension in the wires. Never realized theyre talking about electronic systems where the information is transmitted electronically.
I don't see why critical controls like that -- if you even want to make them automatic -- can't have manual and automatic modes coupled.
If you lose power steering, you can still steer a vehicle, though you're going to have to use a lot more muscle.
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i agree. and this isnt just a tesla thing. plenty of other manufacturers are going this route, tesla might be the worst though especially the 3/y rear seat release. when the i8 was released i watched a video on youtube where a salesman and a tech were showing the car off. the tech mentioned that in training they kept breaking the emergency release inside the car. if a tech cant get out in training then how the fuck is anyone supposed to use it in a real emergency?
I imagine firemen/EMS/Cops are going to get annoyed with all the motorized door handles and just start breaking windows when ever they're responding to something.
Absolutely. If your car is on fire, you shouldn’t be digging around looking for a latch, you should be pulling that handle and exiting in seconds. This design is going to kill people.
The number of automotive interfaces that we need to start strictly regulating because of trendy bullshit is getting fucking stupid.
A car door handle should be a mechanical device that's plainly obvious to anyone who's used a door handle, like, ever.
If phones are too dangerous to use while driving, then so is a fucking tablet glued to the dashboard.
I shouldn't need a camera to use reverse, just quit adding blind spots.
A steering wheel should be just that — a wheel.
Blinker control should be a stalk pointing to the driver's side door and self cancel.
And so on...
The fucking LED brighter than the goddamn sun headlights needed to be regulated 7 years ago
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I don't know if that's a tesla thing, or just cars in general these days (as I have an old vehicle and don't ride in many others), but not having a fucking manual door opener seems really, really dumb.
it's over engineering at it's finest. Also included is the motorized pop-out door handles.
So the pop out handles on evs make a little sense. The goal is to reduce wind drag as much as possible. At least on mine (not a Tesla) you can still interact with the handle without the car exposing it.
Not having a manual way to open from the inside? No way in hell is that ok.
The wind drag on the handles is so negligible youd see a larger performance boost simply washing the bugs off the surface.
Cars aren’t moving fast enough that such short protrusions really matter.
It isn’t until cars start getting to race speeds that aerodynamic forces become … important.
Does it reduce drag? Yes. Is it smart to do so? Not so much. This is like all the cars that pulled out spares to get under the Obama era mpg requirements. Does it increase mileage? Sure. Is it smart to do so?
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There's only a small handful of cars that have primarily electronic door handles. Teslas are the worst because opening the door without power is very different than opening it with power and sometimes breaks the window. I think it was Mercedes or someone who has a power lock but the manual release is part of the same lever, you just pull it out farther.
Also wasn't there a famous video of BMW showing how to mechanically perform every task on their all electric sports car? From car doors to hood releases to way more niche things 99.9999% of people will never use or even know exists?
Teslas are just overrated they dont do anything better than other ev cars, they were just first to mass market, which is great but doesn't mean it's a good purchase today.
This is textbook bad engineering.
I don't normally use the word "literally", but.. these Teslas are literally death traps. Their door releases are all extremely hidden and impossible to locate if you haven't been trained to find them. It's like they are trying to kill people.
Woah, buddy don't think like that, let me reset that neural link for you.
Have a nice day.
My Toyota has this thing called a door handle
Heh, peasants with their ancient car doors. It doesn't count as a car until you unlock it with your fingerprint and credit card information and bash your head four times on the roof while getting in.
The Model 3 owner's manual states that "only the front doors are equipped with a manual door release."
Well clearly anyone in the rear could just go out the front doors. And there's absolutely no conceivable way that would ever not be possible, right?
Huh, this must be new? My Model 3 and S both have rear hardware manual open methods.
The Model 3 one is so easy to access that most of my passengers used it instead of the button.
There's a little hole next to the electric door handle where you can poke a straightened paper clip... oh oops, that's the cd player, not the door.
The new Lexus RX has this door tech as well. I couldn’t open the door in the showroom.
Walked out of Lexus right away.
Reason #286 to never own a god damned stupid Tesla.
Cars are required to have manual releases by law; it's just shitty how Tesla appears to be skirting those rules by hiding these manual releases behind inconvenient placements and locations...which is going to get people killed someday when one of these damn things catch fire.
You need power to open the door? Every day I learn more and more how piss poor the design is for these cars.
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