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cross-posted from: https://sh.itjust.works/post/3197004
Source: https://landgeist.com/2023/08/12/births-outside-of-marriage-in-europe/.
There has to be some (dis)incentive to have children without marriage in some contries and not others.
I Germany I guess people think you might as well marry when having children because you get extra money, less taxes whatever and maybe that's not the case in other countries.
The short answer is religion.
Marriage is a civil institution in Germany. A church marrying you has exactly as much legal power as a random citizen doing it: None. You get married at the civil registry office, by a bureaucrat (but yes they're amenable to some mild ceremony)
What about the whole Christian no-sex-before-marriage? Has to contribute at least something
Maybe among the 0.0001% devout.
At least for Germany I really doubt it.
and Taxes
Another very important factor is that in Germany it's extremely difficult to become the official father of a child when you're not married to the mother. This obviously comes with a lot of problems. For example when the mother suffers complications during birth. It's just way easier to marry instead of doing all of that paperwork.
I don't think it really matters in Finland
Yeah, in Germany you get tax benefits under certain circumstances when married. In many other countries (e.g. Austria), marriage makes no difference. That's already a strong motivator.
In Germany there are massive tax advantages to getting married. That is why a lot of people get married in late December of each year.
Can we get another map about inceptions out of mariage? Many marry only after learning they will be parents.
TΓΌrkiye what u doin
Marrying apparently
Mis-reporting or not reporting births, probably. That's far too low to be realistic.
Turkish here! The reasons are the fact that we are poor as fuck to finace a newborn baby and the financial incentives of marrying. When you marry usually the tradition is like the bride side funds the ceremony and groom's side funds the house goods like dish washer, bed etc. You also get lotsa assets from your other relatives, colleagues, and friends. Moreover, both grandparents, being rich boomers, subsidise the cost of grandchild and take care of them. They wouldn't do so if it was outside marriage because of old school mindset (herritage laws play a big role here too).
That sounds wrong for Portugal. Couples who got married, had a kid and then divorced are fairly common, but born outside of marriage makes me struggle to even think of someone.
Your experience is not representative of the whole. I know a few single moms and many unmarried couples with children.
Indeed, it isnβt. My job has me dealing with a ton of children of the area I live in (βConcelhoβ, as we call it), and most of them are still not born out of marriage, thatβs why I am surprised. 60% seems very high.
Couples who live together like they are married, with kids and all, but haven't really put the pen to the paper, are more common than you think.
The ones who stick together eventually make it official as a formality. But their kids technically are born out of wedlock.
It even has a legal precedent as uniΓ£o de facto.
I would like to know the conception rate out of wedlock
Iceland, nice.
Rounding error when they truncated the last two significant figures. Actual value is 0.020% higher.
In Germany the difference between former East and West Germany is very interesting. While in the East it is roughly 55% in the west it is much lower, also with clear differences from north to south: https://www.iwd.de/artikel/unehelich-na-und-291746/
Honestly, that still sounds very high. I'm in the prime birthing age and hardly anyone in my peer group is married, yet many have kids.
That's anecdotal, sure, but it also implies that there's a huge population of married child bearers. Where are those?
This is not what I would have expected given the general tendency seems to be "eastern block = less". Curious about why this is reversed in Germany (and Bulgaria apparently).
To be honest I dont get your comment. Can you maybe explain more? For me the distribution looks exactly like what I would have expected considering our history.
I mean looking at the other numbers on the map, the eastern countries generally seem to have much lower outside-marriage birth rates yet east Germany has higher rates than the west. I'd have expected closer numbers to e.g. Poland in east Germany and closer to France/Belgium/Netherlands in the west.
Yeah but Poland for example is very catholic traditionally. Also South and West Germany, while East Germany was more protestant. The socialist system in the GDR didn't care much for religion or actively opposed it leaving todays east Germany then largely atheist. I think this plays a huge role. You'll see the same divide looking at women working or children in kindergarten because east Germany favored a more progressive way of family and gender roles.
They didnt just 'didnt Care much', the goverment discriminated you If You believed in god. Examples i have Heard of is that If you wanted to Go to university or wanted a promotion they advised you to Stop practicing your religion.
I don't remember the exact Numbers, but about 80% were catholic after the war and about 15% were after Germany united again.
Jep exactly, that is what happened to my grand parents.
about 80% were catholic after the war
You mean religious? I don't think that region has been majority Catholic in centuries.
Well yeah. Weddings are expensive (relatively) and can be delayed. Having kids can only be delayed so much. People don't have as much disposable in recent times so are choosing rather than both.
France is looking likeable. I wonder if this is another result of their system of LaΓ―citΓ©.