I've been saying that for a while. Nobody to root for in the game. Not the Empire, not the Stormcloaks, not even the Forsworn. And the Forsworn thing is a whole racist trope of its own, holy shit. You have basically this blackface take of Native Americans, who've been wrongfully dispossessed of The Reach, but they had to make them all black magic worshiping, centered around the witch/hag hierarchy, every weird colonialist slur you could even dig up from the "Manifest Destiny" days. Skyrim's great as like a fidget spinner for the ambience and the like, but man does it have problems.

[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

It is just such an excessively mediocre game, that I'm still surprised to see people talking about playing it to this day. Just.. why?

[–] veganpizza69@lemmy.world 3 points 1 hour ago

why?

Eternal recurrence

"What, if some day or night a demon were to steal after you into your loneliest loneliness and say to you: 'This life as you now live it and have lived it, you will have to live once more and innumerable times more; and there will be nothing new in it, but every pain and every joy and every thought and sigh and everything unutterably small or great in your life will have to return to you, all in the same succession and sequence—even this spider and this moonlight between the trees, and even this moment and I myself. The eternal hourglass of existence is turned upside down again and again, and you with it, speck of dust!'

"Would you not throw yourself down and gnash your teeth and curse the demon who spoke thus? Or have you once experienced a tremendous moment when you would have answered him: 'You are a god and never have I heard anything more divine.' If this thought gained possession of you, it would change you as you are or perhaps crush you. The question in each and every thing, 'Do you desire this once more and innumerable times more?' would lie upon your actions as the greatest weight. Or how well disposed would you have to become to yourself and to life?"

Friedrich Nietzsche

[–] TheObviousSolution@lemm.ee 12 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago) (3 children)

I don't think you seriously know the lore of the Elder Scrolls and the way it usually works out, and are really projecting your own prejudices without realizing it. The Forsworn are a take on Breton mythology in The Elder Scrolls universe, and The Elder Scrolls universe is essentially all about subverting the expectation of what you thought the past really was like, what it truly was like, and the transposition of both of these into the same time frame. Hell, the whole concept of Aedra and Daedra may be a literal manifestation of this dichotomy at the "god/demon" level, "may be" because in true Elder Scrolls fashion the lore never tells you in an outright manner and just drops hints within the lore.

Neither the Empire or the Stormcloaks were supposed to be wholly good options, the player was supposed between distinctly flawed options, where siding with the Empire might very well have been the best in an imperfect world option. I suspect that the fact that the player base was as divided as they were between the two is why they went the complete opposite end of the spectrum in Starfiled and just slapped you with the "this is what you were supposed to choose!" companion commentary.

[–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 8 points 11 hours ago

The more I hear about Starfield the more I'm glad Baldur's Gate 3 blew it out of the water.

[–] dx1@lemmy.world 3 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago) (1 children)

The Forsworn thing is completely on the nose. I don't know what "take" you're saying it is.

You could go for the "they're telling you all options are imperfect" theory, except they dramatize the fuck out of the whole thing to make it seem as "epic" as possible (esp with the Stormcloaks). The same way the rest of the game is, that so oddly seems to coincidence with neo-Nazi Nordic idealism. I don't have prejudices about the game, it's a text with content and that's what the content is. I think real life is more black and white than the absolutely muddled amoral mess the Empire vs. Stormcloaks conflict is. Not to mention the constant implications about the sinister Aldmeri conspiracy that never seems to have any resonating significance in the plot.

[–] Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world 3 points 10 hours ago

The problem is Bethesda, as usual. Like with their work in Fallout, the script and the deeper meaning of any choices you make in the game are always subservient to their larger view of gameplay - they do not think of the player as a part of any story, they view their customer as a kid bashing action figures together. Any possible combination of action figures being bashed together needs to be valid in support of that. This is why every possible ally will accept you, and no choice ends up feeling like it deeply matters.