this post was submitted on 07 Nov 2024
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Mildly Infuriating

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[–] Sanctus@lemmy.world 182 points 1 week ago (8 children)

Mildly? I'm radicalized as fuck. This is the most infuriating shit. Fucken useless ass democrats are only good at constructing elaborate and expensive footguns. They couldn't read the fucken room and hear people screaming for any change at all.

[–] resin85@lemmy.ca 4 points 6 days ago (1 children)

The media completely failed at their job of informing the public.

A democracy requires an informed citizenry, and the US media over the past eight years in particular created an increasingly misinformed citizenry.

When people are more concerned that a trans girl might play on a softball team than that the climate crisis might profoundly devastate the biosphere and much of life on it, human and otherwise, for the next 10,000 years, the media has failed. When people worry about crime when it is low, an economy when it is thriving and immigrants when they do much of the hard work that sustains that economy and commit fewer crimes than the native-born, the media has failed.

When it came to Donald Trump, they went easy on him, and they again and again let him and the far right set the agenda. They constantly treated asymmetrical issues as symmetrical ones – if the Democrats resisted Republican outrages, both sides were “polarized”. In the media everything had two sides, even if one side was the truth and the other was the lie, one side was the human rights or the law and the other side was their violation.

They went soft on Trump’s criminality and incompetence, and his sheer volume of scandals meant that the past ones were forgotten as the next one erupted. He would not have won his 2016 minority victory had the US news media adequately conveyed that Trump was not the fun fictional character in the reality TV show The Apprentice; he was a serially bankrupt man repeatedly accused of sexual assault with a lot of criminal ties and a history of not paying his bills, being helped on by the Vladimir Putin regime, which had itself seriously corrupted the information environment of the election.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/nov/07/us-progressive-election-trump-maga

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[–] ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago (3 children)

I can't really blame the Democrats. The public is who failed. The Democrats ran a sane adult. That alone should have been enough to beat Trump.

[–] Sanctus@lemmy.world 8 points 6 days ago (1 children)

No its not when people are in agony. To them, this is their torch. This is how fascism rises.

[–] ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world 12 points 6 days ago (1 children)

We made it through the Recession and COVID-19, but now people are in agony? No fucking way. They chose fascism because they are awful.

[–] Hobbes_Dent@lemmy.world 8 points 6 days ago

Yeah. Fascism rises further because Americans voted for it, not because of the candidate.

More important to have a Chad than anything.

[–] normal_user@lemmy.one 3 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

Some extracts from a great comment from another user on lemmy (readfanon). I'll paste this here since some people seem to think that the Democrats did nothing wrong and it is the "left" voters who failed them :

1-You are chasing the DNC to the right and one day you will wake up and wonder to yourself "How did I end up all the way over here?" I'm not following you into that marsh but you're welcome to go into it yourself, just don't get upset at me when I point out what you're heading into and don't get angry when I refuse to blindly follow you.

2-Historically, fascism has never been stopped at the ballot box. You being convinced that this is possible does not sway my opinion on any matter aside from my estimation of your political awareness and your ability to achieve change.

3-You had four years (eight+ if you count Trump's regime and the lead-up to it in this calculation) to "stop fascism". What did you do in this period of time? Did you push Biden and Kamala to adopt policies which have mass support? Did you do anything except go to back to brunch?

4-You aren't entitled to others' votes. Stop pretending that you are.

5-We aren't splitting the so-called left, Kamala Harris did that all by herself.

6-You have no red lines. There is nothing that could make you not support Kamala Harris and we know it. Telling people to drop their standards and ignore their conscience to vote for Kamala is a fatal strategy and you killed her campaign by deploying it.

7-Almost all of your arguments for voting for Kamala Harris (aside from the "it will stop Trump" argument which, in retrospect, appears to be a dismal failure) also apply to reasons for voting for Trump. "You can push them left", "By voting we will get a seat at the table", "Voting third party or not voting at all is a wasted vote", "We have to vote this way to protect the country", "Politics is about comprise - you cannot expect them to be your perfect political candidate", and whatever hold-your-nose-and-vote arguments you trot out. Did you ever stop to ask yourself why it is that you do not find these arguments for voting Trump to be convincing?

8-Last time Trump got elected you were brutally vindictive. You took glee in the thought of people in red states and marginalised groups suffering due to policy and things like natural disasters, regardless of their politics or how they chose to vote. You were excited to tell these people that they were going to get deported and put into concentration camps. You will do it again this time too because you have learned nothing. November came and these people you targeted with your vicious schadenfreude remembered. They aren't going to forget how effortlessly you abandoned them and how you wished the worst suffering and ill-fate upon them.

[–] ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world 6 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (2 children)

None of those excuses justifies voting for a clearly insane man. You don't look at a normal person and a guy screaming about eating cats and say "that cat eating guy is the one out of the two who should have the nuclear codes". It's fucking moronic.

[–] octopus_ink@lemmy.ml 5 points 6 days ago (1 children)

And half of it is either not true for me personally, based on some hefty assumptions even if applied generally, etc....

[–] normal_user@lemmy.one 2 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Which of the points do you feel are not correct ?

Could you elaborate on it ? Otherwise I can't really motivate and explain them.

[–] octopus_ink@lemmy.ml 0 points 6 days ago (1 children)

It's OK, your explanation is not required.

[–] normal_user@lemmy.one 2 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I mean, you joined in on people having a discussion/debate on why Kamala lost, said some of the points are not valid and then refused to explain which point or why.

I guess you do you but we are still left wondering what could possibly be wrong about the original message for you.

[–] octopus_ink@lemmy.ml 0 points 6 days ago

Hey you got what you wanted, and you got to post a lengthy manifesto about it. I don't feel obligated to give you more of my time than I already have.

[–] normal_user@lemmy.one 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Neither Kamala Harris nor Trump should ever have access to nuclear codes !

Let's remember K.H. literally said she wanted to start a new war with Iran and that she wanted the "most lethal army in the world".

You fell for the Dems propaganda so hard you literally can't see how both of the main runners for the elections were crazy far right candidates. There is no substantial distinction in foreign policy between Kamala Harris and Donald Trump so neither of them should have access to nukes, not voting for any of the two parties is the only logical conclusion.

The only reason why the good 3rd party candidates are not electable is because of people like you that will blindly follow the Dems on their descent into fascism. The US does not need two Republican Parties, so stop supporting and justifying the second one. Go out and start building support for an actually good party, that's the only way to save the country from fascism. Not voting for the Democrats.

[–] ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world 3 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Let's remember K.H. literally said she wanted to start a new war with Iran

Citation fucking needed.

she wanted the "most lethal army in the world".

That has been the explicit US policy of the US regardless of leadership for 80 years.

If you think Harris and Trump are equally crazy, YOU are the one who needs psychological treatment. Trump literally wanted to nuke a hurricane, pulled us out of our nuclear deal with Iran, encouraged the US to develop and test "low yield" nuclear arms, and encouraged South Korea to build their own nukes. Harris along with Biden has simply continued the standard nuclear deterrent policy the US has followed for decades in spite of the first direct nuclear threat by another country since the Cuban Missile Crisis.

[–] normal_user@lemmy.one -1 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (3 children)

About the first one, I guess it was actually Tim Walz that, when asked if he supported a preemptive strike on Iran, replied that Israel has a right to expand itself and that he would back Israel since it is a US ally unlike what he thinks Trump would do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMIEaiS88pI

And Tim Walz is who Kamala Harris chose as VP, so let's not joke around and pretend Harris would have disagreed with any of this. The Democratic party was always the fascist party but with "the mask on" as opposed to the Republican Party which is "mask off"

But also, while less literally, Harris did say that (and I'm quoting an article linked below):

"Diplomacy is my preferred path to that end, but ALL OPTIONS are on the table,” she added.

Harris, the Democratic presidential nominee, also lambasted her opponent, Republican nominee and former US President Donald Trump, arguing that he was not tough enough toward the Iranian threat.

“I am clear-eyed. Iran is a destabilizing and dangerous force,” Harris said. “When Donald Trump was president, he let Iran off the hook. After Iran and its proxies attacked US bases and American troops, Trump did nothing. And he pulled out of the nuclear deal without any plan, leading to an unconstrained Iranian nuclear program.”

“On the other hand, our administration struck Iranian proxies in Iraq and Syria when they attacked American troops, and we are the first administration to ever directly defend Israel">

https://www.algemeiner.com/2024/10/11/kamala-harris-vows-do-whatever-necessary-prevent-iran-acquiring-nuclear-weapons/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/harris-to-jewish-voters-all-options-on-the-table-to-stop-iran-from-going-nuclear/

At the end of the part I quoted from the article she is literally celebrating about having strikes Iranian proxies already. Let's remember that Israel striked an Iranian embassy, which is considered an act of war.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_airstrike_on_the_Iranian_consulate_in_Damascus

But kamala Harris has supported, is supporting and would have supported all of this, because she sees Israel as an important proxy of the US in the middle east. And the white house uses Israel to project it's power against the Arabs countries and destabilize them. This is why she was never going to end the Genocide in Palestine.

Also, your only excuse for the fact that she wanted the "most lethal army in the world", is that the previous Dems also wanted this ( like obviously, she is from the same party as them, what I'm saying is that that is actively bad and should be a red line, an army should only be defensive, this is not what she was implying if you go back and listen to the DNC speech) and Republicans as well. Again, supporting 100% Hitler because another candidate is 101% Hitler is not that great of a talking point like you think it is. Actually on this particular issue both candidates are the same level of "Hitlerite". That's the party you support, and because you support it, you completely oppose the development of any 3rd party that would not have this crazy warmongering policy.

To end for now my reply, a candidate that supports the foreign nuclear weapons policy the US followed in the past decades is actually a huge negative because the world has never been more tense (as you seem to notice as well in your comment). That policy is getting us closer to nuclear war and you think it's good that Kamala Harris wanted to follow it !? Again, she is just being the fascist with the mask on, instead of being mask off like Trump.

And just to remember you, I do not support Donald Trump, I never did and never will.

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[–] zarkanian@sh.itjust.works 1 points 6 days ago

The Democrats didn't turn out to vote for Kamala, so yes, you can still blame the Democrats.

[–] scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech 125 points 1 week ago (5 children)

I've changed man, since then. I don't know how I feel about the Democrats, but I'm devastated over who voted Republican. So many people in this country voted for him. It wasn't just we had low turnout, but also just that he had so much. That's the disheartening thing for me, that still, with everything we know, he still carries 50% of this country easily. So yeah, we had too few, but worse, he has too many.

[–] AngryRobot@lemmy.world 8 points 6 days ago

At least 1930s Germans could say their cizenry didn't vote for Hitler. We Americans can't say the same. I'm so ashamed of snd angry at my fellow Americans.

[–] Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world 96 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (10 children)

Right? I found pre-election solace in knowing that even though his cult will never turn on him, he couldn't have possibly gotten MORE supporters in the past 4 years.

Turns out they LOVE the hate and they want more of it.

Sorry, Mindless Americans, it's not Trump's fault anymore, it's YOURS.

[–] realitista@lemm.ee 10 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Republicans actively work for an uneducated population they can rule. That's the root of this problem.

[–] Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world 7 points 6 days ago

The research is out, more educated people are more likely to vote Democrat, but if you ever point that out, all you get back is "I know YOU are, but what am I?"

[–] scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech 70 points 1 week ago (22 children)

That's what I've come around to. It's not him. He's a figurehead that we apply blame but it's not. It's the people - the public. They want this. They have the fear and the hate, they actively want it. If America didn't want him, they wouldn't have voted him in. Even with tampering/whatever, if America didn't, he wouldn't be there. But America does want him, and that's a very sobering and sad thought to me. I try to live with a simple code - do what you want, as long as it doesn't hurt others. I learned yesterday that most American's don't have similar values.

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