this post was submitted on 25 Jul 2024
73 points (94.0% liked)
Fediverse
28337 readers
770 users here now
A community to talk about the Fediverse and all it's related services using ActivityPub (Mastodon, Lemmy, KBin, etc).
If you wanted to get help with moderating your own community then head over to !moderators@lemmy.world!
Rules
- Posts must be on topic.
- Be respectful of others.
- Cite the sources used for graphs and other statistics.
- Follow the general Lemmy.world rules.
Learn more at these websites: Join The Fediverse Wiki, Fediverse.info, Wikipedia Page, The Federation Info (Stats), FediDB (Stats), Sub Rehab (Reddit Migration), Search Lemmy
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Seems like lemmy.ml is really collapsing in on itself. Overall not good for the general health of the fediverse. We need large "sibling" instances rather than monoliths like .world, which is to say nothing of the politics of the instance. The fewer "medium" to "large' instances are, the more reliant the whole system becomes on "very large" monoliths like .world, which overall weakens the integrity of the network.
This also highlights the destructiveness of toxic moderation. There is plenty of it here too, but there needs to be some kind of accountability/ redress if open & free communities are going to be a long term project. Not really a big deal in the long run and something we'll just have to keep working on.
This is very good for the health of the fediverse, .ml is home to too many good communities for such a shit instance. Hopefully now more of the mainstream communities on other instances will get more traction, so that we can block .ml and not miss out.
Absolutely 1000%
I can't believe that lemmy mods/admins still think they have the luxury of making bone headed moves in a decentralized network. I am determined to get around this and it is the entire reason I am on a decentralized system. We vote with our feet and in the long term it will all work out. I am looking for suggestions for a politics group that is not lemmy.world and not lemmy.ml.
Curious, coming from a LW account
I'm not a LW fan. In my opinion, they are doing any % speedrun on how to become as bad as Reddit and succeeding admirably.
With that said, I don't hate on LW users. Most of them are probably unaware of the moderator issues from their own instance and are just looking for content.
I don't think it was meant to be an insult to lemmy.world or its users. The post you're replying to is just pointing out some contradiction between a user agreeing with the need to spread out on the fediverse, while doing so by posting from one of the most stacked instances.
Yes, thank you
Why are you curious. On a decentralized platform, It matters where you post TO, not where you post FROM. Anybody can easily switch to posting from another platform.
I see where you come from, but using one instance still makes it active, encouraging new joiners looking for an instance to join it too.
LW got so popular because it had most of the users at some point, and that only went further over time.
I slightly disagree. I think what needs to happen is there needs to be general instances, and specialized instances. By the nature of how they work, specialized instances would have more content, but less hosted users.
So Lemmy.World would be a general instance. You can host any community on a general instance, but it will do better if it can be hosted on a specialized instance (which most topics can be).
There may be niche topics that will do better on general instances, mostly if it doesn't fit into any other catagory.
But lets say you want to follow your favorite baseball team. Well, you know Sports.InstanceName has all the sports. So you go there, search for your team and find TeamName@Sports.Instance
And if everybody did this, the fediverse would at least make sense.
But lets say you want a community based on collecting toe nail clippings from the right foots pinky. Well, I can't imagine a specialized instance would ever be made that you'd include THAT community. So you go to RightFootPinkyToeNailClippings@Lemmy.World and it will have like 3 subscribers.
Now, back to the baseball team for a second. IF you only come to the fediverse to talk baseball, maybe you're fine being hosted on Sports.Instance. However most people would want their home instant to be a general instance. So that when they click "local" they get a bit of everything, whereas you hosted on the sports instance would only get sports.
The problem I see with the fediverse is there is a HUUUUUUUUGE learning curve. When you first get here, with zero introduction to the concepts of the platform, you're just thrown in. I've even been insulted by people who assumed I didn't know how the platform worked. Saying "You're supposed to sort by subscribed, dumbass!". The thing is, the problem I was describing WAS sorted by subscribed.
The way I'm describing, a new user can know "oh, this is where I find the sports, this is where I find the music, this is where I find the TV, ect ect ect.
You can still make SportsTeam@Lemmy.World, but without people looking for it there, you won't get many people subscribing unless there's some MAJOR issue with Sports.Instance.
You could also make Baseball.Instance. whereas Sports.Instance would be more of an all inclusive to all sports instance, which would help smaller sports communities grow, Baseball.Instance would be all about baseball communities.
And if I seem like I'm explaining the obvious, thats good. Thats the point. I want it to be obvious what every instance/community is, where it is, before you even seek it out or click it.
Beevisandbutthead@tv.instance. That doesn't exist, but even as a hypothetical example, you already know what that community is going to be, and what that entire instance is catered to. You CAN'T click it, because it's hypothetical, but you already know what it is.
That + a guide to the fediverse would go a LOOOOOONG way for newbies. I still don't know how to visit Lemm.ee main page for example, without going there directly so I can stay logged in. I can figure out how to go to individual communities while logged in (and that whole process needs a simplification while we're on the topic), but I can't go to the main page, so I can click local, and see whats actively being posted to the whole instance like I can on my own instance. Theres probably a way.....and it's probably a bunch of overly complicated series of steps that isn't naturally intuitive. Which is the biggest hurdle for this platform.
!newtolemmy@lemmy.ca
There is not
That should be the first thing new users see. But also, it doesn't go as far as I'm imagining. I'm imagining more of a wiki, with every single instance, with a description of what kind of content goes on that instance. What is that instance's personality?
And then again for each individual community. You'd know which communities are active, and which not if the wiki doesn't even have anyone that updates the wiki.
Well that removes a HUGE source of potential that Lemmy could have. It would be the second most useful new feature they could implement.
There is a weekly thread on !newcommunities@lemmy.world to promote active communities
And that's great. Thats one way to promote the new communities. Smaller communities as they're just starting out need all the help they can get. I fully appriciate that it exists.
What I'm suggesting would be in addition to that, and it would promote ALL communities. Big and small. It could even have a search bar, where you tell the guide what topics you're interested in, and it could return a list of all communities that fit your search, sorted by big to small.
So, my idea is a different kind of tool. Both should exist, but you would use them for different purposes.
So like https://lemmyverse.net/communities ?
@Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world ?
No. You don't stay logged in when you go there.
Right now, I can click along the top of the page on Lemmy.World "communities. If I do, it takes me to a list of all the communities on Lemmy.World.
I can't go to another instance directly, and click communities while also being signed in. I can search for other communities on other instances, but I can't get a list of communities while signed in.
I should be able to go to Lemmy.Zip, and it should route me to something like Lemmy.World/Lemmy.zip so I'm viewing Lemmy.zip while still signed into Lemmy.World.
That way you can browse other instances communities and just hit subscribe without having to do the extra work of copying !community@instance.domain then going BACK to Lemmy.World, searching for !community@instance.domain, clicking the search result, and THEN you're inside the community while still signed in.
It would save several steps, plus retain my settings as I do it, and make Lemmy seem like a more seamless experience. Rather than a hodgepodge of various patched together pieces cosplaying as a website.
There is a button on the right to set your home instance. If you set it, you'll get to the community from your instance
Ok.....that did nothing. I'm not logged in. My settings aren't loaded. The little home button turned green......but nothing changed.
Are you using this site and Lemmy in general from a desktop browser?
I just did the test:
Is this not what you were describing above as desired behaviour?
I'd argue that a biased overly-centralized instance like that collapsing in on itself is good for the general health of the Fediverse.
The redress is having lots of servers to switch to, much like how on Reddit the redress was "start your own subreddit if the one you're on is moderated poorly." I can't imagine any system that would let you "take control" of some other instance without that being ridiculously abusable.
Nah .ml dying is great for the fediverse. Actually the denizens of .ml dying irl would be great for the world too
What
Wow, that's a pretty discussing comment. You do not agree with a few peoples views, do generalise and want them to die. You're worse than tankies.
Tbf, if he said that about nazis, who want to kill a bunch of people, he'd be applauded. He instead said it about tankies, who want to kill a bunch of people, but they like to wear red. That was his real mistake lol.
I'm on that instance and not a tankie. I'm politically left, but object completely to authoritarianism and justification of atrocities.
So yeah, I get annoyed when pricks generalise and wish my death upon me for thinking maybe we should help the poorest in society and don't think the super rich deserve every penny they get.
I find it ironic when people are hating on one political grouping and their conduct is no better than the ones they despise.
Well get used to it, generalization is what people do, they love it, I'm doing it right now, it's a function of the human brain seeking patterns. They'll decry it against their group and use it on another group in damn near the same breath, welcome to the world. We even have phrases for it, "one bad apple spoils the whole bunch" and all. I bet if I scrolled through your comment history (I'm not gonna, but if I did) I wouldn't have to go too far to see you generalize about a group commonly perceived as "all bad," I'd guess it's republicans, probably say they're all racists or all nazis or all X, it doesn't really matter, point is the odds that you do are higher than the odds that you don't.
What you are referring to is heuristics. It's simplistic. Effective for wild animals that require processing of complex information quickly to escape predators for example, but not so much for civilised humans that require a greater deal of accuracy.
You demonstrated the ineffectiveness of the approach by assuming I'm a Democrat or even American.
The skill is in understanding the process, the flaw and developing a capability for critical thought. You'll get there eventually, hopefully.
Actually I assumed you're a lemmy user, of which I've yet to meet one who doesn't generalize republicans whether the poster is american or not. Not without reason, mind you, many republicans are say, racist, though many are not. It serves as a damn fine example of exactly what I'm referring to and is also a generalization in and of itself, which doubles back to make my point again. I understand the process, and in fact at times see value in it rather than simply nature at work, the trick is knowing what to do with the generalization. Should you hate X because X usually Ys? No, but if Y is an undesirable behavior trait in X you should at least find out if they Y before becoming entwined with them somehow.
What?
Was that just an embarrassed verbal vomit?
You were wrong, and rather than admitting, or leaving it, you continue trying to spew words in the hope that you confuse and distract people from realising you were wrong. Are you that insecure?
The point is we all generalize, the problem is not knowing how to apply it, and whether or not the generalization is perceived as good or bad is highly contextual. Feel free to not get it all you want, doesn't hurt me any.