this post was submitted on 16 May 2024
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What do you think of the term "short king" as a term that's supposed to champion body positivity for men? (lemm.ee)
submitted 6 months ago by BmeBenji@lemm.ee to c/asklemmy@lemmy.ml
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Body positivity is such a strange concept to me. There's efforts to reclaim words while simultaneously calling them bad if used as an insult. Ideally, people wouldn't be offended by someone describing their body with common descriptors, but socially there is so much value attributed to certain body types that it's almost impossible to avoid having an emotional response of some kind to various descriptors.

For example, It's not bad to be fat, but calling someone "fat" is almost universally considered a bad thing. The same definitely seems to go for the idea of being "short."

I'm asking this question because I can't put my finger on why but something seems to be different about the use of the term "short" from the use of the term "fat." I think that part of it is how, to me at least, the term "fat" is so generic and hard to nail down to a discrete definition, implying that the word really doesn't have a clear connection to reality. On the other hand, height is a single-dimensional number. You either are above a certain threshold, or you aren't.

I recently learned that May 6th to May 10th is "short king week" because it's 5'6" to 5'10" which then prompted me to search for the origins of "short king" and apparently the person most-credited with popularizing the term is Jaboukie Young-White who claims the term was meant to include all men under 6 feet tall. The average adult male height is 5'9" leaving men considered roughly average to be called "short" which is still considered an insult by many.

I dunno. As a term that was intended to champion body positivity compared with how the term is actually used, what do you think of "short king?"

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[–] oxjox@lemmy.ml 7 points 6 months ago (2 children)

I'm 5'6" and find the term childish and insulting. It's not the short part, it's the king part. I am not a king, I'm a regular guy working a regular job.

"Body positivity" is garbage. People should be honest and support healthy lifestyles. Twisting reality to make someone comfortable is detrimental to their physical and mental health.

I don't understand the reasoning but, across the board, it seems today's culture is very quick to accept literal delusions in place of reality for the sake of feelings and "mental well being".

[–] EssentialNPC@lemmy.world 0 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

I think that you have internalized a version of body positivity that lies on the most extreme end of what is meant by that phrase. Body positivity - be comfortable with who you are and do not put down on others due to their body.

The odds are that I am significantly fatter than you. The odds also favor that I am significantly stronger than you, even if you lift weights. I can also probably walk all day much farther than you can.

Would it be healthier if I lose body fat? Absolutely. Have I tried for 20 years to do that? Yes. I am not ignorant regarding nutrition. I am not lazy. I am not overall lacking willpower. I am fat but otherwise healthy.

Body positively means that my doctor treats my body fat as what it is - one aspect of my overall health. He does not assume that every problem I have is because I am fat, even though changing that would improve some aspects of my health.

Body positively also means that I am not going to hide when I go to the beach. I am going to go shirtless and enjoy myself. If you do not find me sexually attractive, that is fine. If you are going to shame or mock me for my body fat, then you are an asshole. If I catch wind of you mocking me, I will quietly estimate how many times your bodyweight I will deadlift on Monday. If you choose to mock the scars that cover parts of my body from extreme, life-saving surgery, I may feel the need to firmly educate you on exactly what sort of asshole you are.

Body positively often conjures the image of a morbidly obese girl on OnlyFans who lets people pay to watch her binge and intentionally get fatter while she says being purposefully inactive is just as healthy as hitting the gym. The real versions of that person are extremely rare, but their radicalism, vociferous nature, and platform make their voices much louder in comparison. Their argument is also easy to find flaw with and mock, so they get used as if they are a typical example of body positivity.

You are right in that the woman I describe above needs help and is not behaving in a safe or healthy way. I also understand why you might think that is the norm. She is not, though, and I would encourage you to look deeper at the meaning of the "movement."

The "you" above is generic and based on broad assumptions. You, the reader, might be stronger than me and have way more endurance than me. You also might be fatter than I am. The odds are very good that you are also not an asshole. My point was to call out variances from the norm as convenient examples, of which I have plenty in both directions.

[–] oxjox@lemmy.ml 2 points 6 months ago (2 children)

If you’re a hundred pounds overweight, you should not be comfortable with who you are. People who support or celebrate morbid obesity are bad people.

[–] Aussiemandeus@aussie.zone 2 points 6 months ago

Yeah, shits me to tears that people think it's OK,

I lost 35kgs through diet exercise etc and I felt absolutely amazing at the 30kg loss mark.

Didn't think I felt bad at 125kg at 6ft tall when I hit 95 I felt amazing. Knees joints life everything easy.

Getting down to 90 on strict diet was hard and life just wasn't fun anymore. Sure 6pack was cool and all but just no fun. I'm not blessed with those skinny genetics.

Anyone who's fat and not been skinny in their adult life shouldn't think they're healthy and happy because everything is better when you're actually at a healthy weight.

[–] EssentialNPC@lemmy.world 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

It does not appear that you are really listening to others to do much as commenting pithy things, and I am not sure if you have some specific reason for this or if you are just picking fights.

But let's still break this down. Literally no one here is talking about celebrating morbid obesity. That is pretty much a straw man at this point.

Morbidly obese people should be able to look in the mirror and think to themselves, "I look good today!" They should be allowed to go out without worry that someone will make fun of them. They should be able to go to the doctor and be heard instead of the doctor assuming every health problem is only caused by obesity.

If you disagree with the above statements, please be very clear as to why. Everybody deserves quality medical care from their physician. Everybody deserves to not hate themselves. Everybody deserves to not be kicked for their appearance.

No one is saying, "Woo-hoo! Try to be so fat it harms your health!" I would suggest you read up on the science of weight loss and why so many little are obese these days. There is not universal consensus, but there is general agreement that the deck is highly stacked against many people, and extra body fat is not a simple condition to deal with in many circumstances.

People should try to lead the healthiest lifestyle they are reasonably able. No one is stating otherwise.

[–] coaxil@lemm.ee 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Your other comment I can't respond to for whatever the Lemmy reason lol, I very much like your take on these matters, also slightly adjacent, what is your dead?

[–] EssentialNPC@lemmy.world 2 points 6 months ago

Thank you. I don't have notes handy, but my deadlift was around 360 lbs. for 8-12 when I was last training it directly. A few health-related issues have sidelined my lifting for a couple months (post-cancer life sucks sometimes), but I am cleared to get back into the gym next week!

My legs are where I really shine, with my calculated one rep max for the sled press up in the mid 800s and working sets in the 600s. That is my lift where people stop and look twice.

[–] DrJenkem@lemmy.blugatch.tube 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I agree that we should strive for people to be healthy. But there's a lot of evidence to suggest that shame not only is ineffective but can actually have the opposite effect.

Besides, I think you're being pretty reductive. Health includes both physical and mental, we should take steps to improve both of these. And I get the sense that you specifically take issue with body positivity specifically around fat people, as I assume you don't think being short or tall is unhealthy. In which case, you're ignoring the economics of it (at least in America, there are a ton of government subsidies for corn, incentivizing businesses to load up our food with corn syrup).

The issue is complex and so would any solutions. At least in America, we need to deincentivize the production of unhealthy food, better access to healthcare, and cultural shifts as well. And I'm sure there's a whole lot I'm missing.

[–] oxjox@lemmy.ml 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

If you’re ashamed for being overweight, that’s something that should motivate you to lose the weight. Embracing being fat and blaming others is not healthy, it’s delusional.

There’s also a ton of government subsidizes for other fruits and vegetables. Don’t blame the government for your poor eating habits. Learn to prepare real food. It’s healthier, cheaper, and more abundant. You don’t need to deincentivize producing unhealthy food, you just need to choose not to eat it.

This culture of supporting people who are overweight is making us all lose sight of what a healthy lifestyle looks like. As generations spend less time working physically and more time sitting, our diets should be moving towards far less calories. Instead, we’re being made into nothing more than consumers who click a button to have bad food delivered to us while we sit on the couch.

The only complex issue is how we got here. It’s not complex to make healthier choices. I’d argue it’s easier than what we’re doing now. To quote Michael Pollan, “eat food, not too much, mostly plants”.

[–] DrJenkem@lemmy.blugatch.tube -1 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

If you’re ashamed for being overweight, that’s something that should motivate you to lose the weight.

You would think so, but you'd be wrong. As I said before, shaming not only doesn't work but has the opposite effect.

As James Corden said:

If making fun of fat people made them lose weight, there'd be no fat kids in schools.

If you're sincere in your desire to make people healthier, then shame is not the way.

If you're only interested in a feeling of superiority, then carry on I guess.