this post was submitted on 13 May 2024
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Yea, it's really hard to get my head around any kind of communist type of ideals when I know I'd be doing 3x the work of pretty much everyone around me for the same outcome as them. Not that capitalism is much better but at least with that I get SOMETHING more to show for my efforts
That’s not really true.
Right now under the capitalist systems there are countless jobs that are detrimental to the world we live in, or don’t actually produce anything of tangible value.
We would be a lot better off if a lot of people just didn’t do their “jobs”.
We don’t need a hundred types of sugar water, Or McDonald’s plastic toys. Landlords, bankers, stock brokers, financial planners, most lawyers are all useless.
Overpopulation is also a Malthusian myth. It isn’t that we have too many people. Under capitalism resources are not distributed well. It doesn’t make sense that most of us are working in a system that expects infinite growth with the finite resources our world is limited to. All in order to make a handful of people increasingly wealthy while the rest of us increasingly can’t afford to live a basic, simple life.
We can and must work toward building a new system (spoiler: it’s called Anarchism) while dismantling the old, inefficient, destructive system we are currently forced to try to survive in.
I wouldn't dismiss the concerns of overpopulation entirely. Simple math tells us that, unless we are able to create a society with infinite resources (i.e. post-scarcity), it will always be necessary to make sure our rate of consumption is less than the rate of replacement.
So far, we are losing that battle, given the significant amount of non-renewable resources we consume at a global scale. On top of that, unchecked development which is needed to ensure that the needs of massively overpopulated regions are met endangers what few natural/renewable resources remain, which carries the threat of food scarcity, loss of drinking water, and permanent environmental damage on ecosystems that we depend on.
Which part of what I said is not true? My point was most people are fucking lazy and will do everything they can to leave shit to be done by others. I'm always the one at my job cleaning up after other people's fuckups and the one people go to for answers because I actually made the effort to learn everything. Under capitalism this is noticed by my superiors and I'm top of the list any time a promotion becomes available and I have an in if I'm trying to get hired at a different company and people I know have went there resulting in more pay for me than my coworkers who don't make an effort in their work. Under a system where everyone is just given what they need I would be getting the exact same life as people who are doing far less than me.
Also how can you say overpopulation is a myth and simultaneously say there are finite resources in our world? Finite means we will run out.
My thoughts about this
Anarcho-communism (and similar ideologies) isn't really about everyone being equal, that's a silly goal that would take enforcement and calculations, it's not practical. Instead, anarcho-communism is a different way of living based on cooperation rather than exploitation and doing what is needed for people rather than what a few rich owners want.
You and a "lazy" person won't necessarily have the same outcome. A person unwilling to even pick up after themselves or contribute would still be guaranteed housing, food, and health care, but that's about it. You on the other hand could work to have a nicer place or acquire things, so long as you aren't getting them exploiting others or common resources. If you build a nice chair the anarcho-fuzz isn't gonna come and take it to split it amongst the community.
The thinking around "laziness" needs to change. A person unwilling to do even the absolute minimum might be called lazy, but A person unwilling to trade their time for money isn't a bad thing. It's not the "lazy" people that wipe out species, start wars, and cause climate change.
Let's also not forget that a lot of those "lazy" people are actually struggling with illness, insecurity, lack of critical resources, discrimination, burnout from "the grind", or just plain don't see the point in contributing much to a system that never seems to contribute anything back. Guaranteed housing, food, and healthcare would fix a lot of the problems that cause "laziness".
Exactly right, thank you.
And who is having to work extra to pick up their slack? That housing, food, and healthcare all require labor from others.
Our society already produces far more than we need, it's just sucked up by the owner class. If we removed the owner class and their hoarding, we could all work less and still have more than enough to provide for those unwilling or unable to completely provide for themselves.
I personally would be happy to do a bit of work to help ensure people aren't starving or freezing to death because they're going through a depressive episode or even if they're just "lazy fucks". Pretty sure every one I'd consider a friend thinks the same.
You know, it's people with an attitude like yours, unwilling to help out without direct benefit, who I consider lazy, not the person with low ambition.
I'm more than happy to contribute to benefit the group. I don't consider enabling freeloaders to be a benefit. If I want to feed someone that sits around not doing anything all day I'll get a cat.
Good thing people like me exist that will not only feed the "freeloaders", but take care of you too when you break your leg.
A broken leg is a temporary condition. As soon as it's mended I would be back at it (if not before, I also have computer skills that would not be inhibited by a broken leg). Laziness is a personality issue and they will not overcome it if they just have everything they need handed to them.
I say ambition, drive, greed, etc are personality issues that cause harm to others and the environment.
While I'm sure there are a few individuals that would rather sit and die than go get some food, this is not something to actually be concerned with. You watch too much right wing TV telling you there's a whole class of people that just want to take from you, but what's actually happening is that this group is being stolen from and what you see as laziness is often just an unwillingness to facilitate being stolen from.
Without ambition and drive people would still be living in caves. You think someone's going to learn science or medicine without ambition or drive?
I haven't watched any significant amount of TV in 12 years let alone news channels. I don't need some jabbering moron with an agenda to tell me how I should feel about things I can observe with my own eyes. I wasn't even initially talking about people receiving government assistance, I was talking about my coworkers I've had at various jobs. It's always a situation where the few are carrying the many and whatever their reason for being lazy, the outcome is more work and problems and stress for their fellow workers. It's selfish as fuck. I'm not exactly the pinnacle of mental health myself but I power through it when necessary so I don't create problems for others.
only white people (Caucasians) are from caves lol
don't lump everyone in with them
And we'd have a planet to live on indefinitely rather than letting a few thousand rich people destroy our world causing massive suffering. But really, there's a world between living in caves with zero progress and letting capitalists destroy our world while we praise them, I'm not suggesting we live in caves, I'm suggesting we don't let ambitious assholes kill us all while blaming us for the problems they create.
And you don't have an agenda of driving civilization in the direction you want? Are you that blind to your own behavior? You're engaging in a conversation about it and pushing a point, that's an agenda.
That's very likely due to different people having different tolerance for exploitation. Just because you don't mind being exploited try to be a good boot licker doesn't mean others are bad because they don't want to be exploited. Maybe in a different situation you'd be viewed as the lazy one. It's not selfish to not work harder for another's gain.