this post was submitted on 05 Mar 2024
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[–] wander1236@sh.itjust.works 29 points 8 months ago (3 children)
[–] FiskFisk33@startrek.website 89 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (5 children)

Many people who start out at a craft or hobby fall into the trap of thinking they need to get the best and most expensive equipment in order to improve or "get good".

In most cases the better equipment might feel nicer to work with, but doesn't really improve the performance of their wielder.

The hard truth that can be hard to accept, is that the pro's are really good because they put a lot of time and effort into getting there. And there really are no shortcuts around that.

[–] Honytawk@lemmy.zip 64 points 8 months ago (3 children)

Adam Savage has this ideology that if you start a new type of creative hobby, you buy the cheapest tools that has the functions you need. Then when that tool breaks, you buy a nice and expensive version that will last.

Because you have proven that you will use the tool enough to break it.

[–] Klear@lemmy.world 38 points 8 months ago

I always wanted to get into bungee jumping...

[–] XTL@sopuli.xyz 25 points 8 months ago

A lot of markets are filled with tool shaped trash that will actually stop you from doing anything. Especially when you're not already extremely knowledgeable, learning can be a problem when you don't know if the problem is your or your equipment.

And looking for a bigger price tag doesn't help, because the trash makers have figured that out and covered that market as well.

[–] ours@lemmy.world 19 points 8 months ago

This works great for a lot of hobbies but not for some. Some hobbies you certainly don't want your main tool breaking on you. But it kind of applies you don't need the top of the line to start with but at least opt for solid quality over fancy features.

[–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 22 points 8 months ago (2 children)

But tools are important to a degree.

When you're starting out, it's extremely useful to know what your core toolbox needs to include, and who better to ask than someone who clearly knows what they're doing? Michaelangelo could have said "Well, I use a broad flat chisel for for bulk removal, large and small gouge chisels for soft curves, and mainly a v chisel for the finer details"

When you're trying to emulate a specific style, sometimes the type of tool can be crucial for nailing the look. For example, Bob Ross used a palette knife extensively, and choose very different brushes for different elements. Even a skilled painter would have difficulty reproducing his work if all they had was one 1-inch flat brush.

[–] FiskFisk33@startrek.website 3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Agreed, but that's not really how the question in the comic was phrased.

[–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 10 points 8 months ago

That seems like the intent of the artist, but the question alone, literally, can be taken either way. I'm just saying that this interpretation is an over-generalization of the question, implying that it's always meant as "What brand of tool will magically make me good?".

[–] Eccitaze@yiffit.net 2 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Not to take away from your point, but Bob Ross had a few episodes where he deliberately restricted himself to only using a single tool for that week's painting--as I recall, he used a palette knife exclusively in one episode, and a two-inch flat brush in another. (That said, it also reinforces your point a bit because there's a HUGE difference between an artist's 2-inch brush and the two-inch brush you buy from the hardware store, and you're going to struggle massively if you try to follow along with Bob using a regular brush.)

[–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 6 points 8 months ago

Yes, and those paintings were distinctive and different. If you tried to follow one of his more detailed paintings with only a palette knife, or one of his mountain scenes with just a fan and a filbert, you won't get very close. That's why it's important to have the right tool(s) for the right job, and how better to find out than asking a talented professional?

[–] nilloc@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Didn’t Bob use a hardware store brush sometimes?

That said Bob was really the prototypical technique guy that this comment is poking fun at.

[–] Eccitaze@yiffit.net 3 points 8 months ago

If he did, I don't remember watching that episode. IIRC a big part of Ross's technique took advantage of the way the fibers on the brush spread when pressed head-on into the canvas, and hardware store brushes just can't replicate that.

[–] snooggums@midwest.social 13 points 8 months ago (1 children)

A good teacher will recommend tools that are good enough for the skill level.

[–] KISSmyOS@feddit.de 9 points 8 months ago

Got it, I'll use this blunted horseshoe nail.

[–] CapeWearingAeroplane@sopuli.xyz 8 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Not exactly art, but as a beginner in climbing you definitely want good shoes. The same applies when you are experienced of course, but the difference between a good and bad shoe purely in terms of enjoyment is enormous.

The same applies to a lot of other stuff as well. If you feel like your equipment is constantly fighting you, it's hard to enjoy what you're doing.

[–] FiskFisk33@startrek.website 4 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I don't know the first thing about climbing, but I assume there is good stuff, and then super expensive top notch stuff.

My comment is not an argument against getting decent or good equipment.

[–] CapeWearingAeroplane@sopuli.xyz 2 points 8 months ago

With regards to climbing shoes I would say there's super cheap crap, and that as long as you don't buy that, personal preference is more important than anything else. Professionals will often be using the same shoes as people with a couple months of experience.

Agreed. I think most hobbyists establish a baseline minimum requirement, which some of it boils down to preference. That preference is usually for newer hobbyists to avoid the same pitfalls. Some may misinterpret it as gatekeeping if you recommend a nuanced opinion, but it's your opinion, anyone is allowed to disagree.

I think to OPs point, people asking "what kind of camera do you use?" Isn't meant to be offensive. It's an exploratory question meant to inspire discussion and it usually means that person has an interest in the topic.

People find the craziest things to be offended about nowadays.

[–] ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

While that's true, my table tennis rating would definitely drop if I were using a cheap paddle set up.

[–] FiskFisk33@startrek.website 3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

On the other hand, a beginner would still get smoked.

[–] ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de 6 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I could use a shoe and my non dominant had to smoke a beginner. But still, if you try to learn something with the worst equipment it can teach bad habits and not be as fun. Far from needing the high end stuff, though. Unless your newly about to pick up high altitude mountain climbing. Might not want to skimp on that one. Lol

[–] FiskFisk33@startrek.website 3 points 8 months ago

if you try to learn something with the worst equipment it can teach bad habits and not be as fun. Far from needing the high end stuff, though

Yeah I think this holds rue for a lot of stuff, if you're serious about learning, you do need decent equipment, but you don't need the best, most expensive stuff there is.

Hahah mountain climbing. Yeah, touché!

[–] Drinvictus@discuss.tchncs.de 25 points 8 months ago (1 children)

It's not the tools its the artist. Of course there is hard work and practice involved but that question implies that, with the right tools, anyone can create the same art.

[–] bstix@feddit.dk 12 points 8 months ago (1 children)

It's still a fair question, because talent is quite often limited by the tools.

[–] Windex007@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I would argue that it is literally never the question you should ask, assuming you get to ask a single question of a master in your craft. It's honestly an embarrassment of a question in that scenario. It's just a complete waste of the precious access you have to real talent.

You could maybe ask your contemporaries that question instead.

Do you think a theoretical physicist would ask Einstein what type of pencil he used?

[–] bstix@feddit.dk 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Einstein didn't use a pencil. He used a fountain pen. I know that because someone asked him.

Albert Einstein used both a Pelikan 100 N and a Waterman Taper-cap Fountain Pen which he used to develop the Theory of Relativity. The Waterman pen is on display at the Boerhaave Museum in Leiden.

[–] Windex007@lemmy.world 1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

This is absolutely perfect. With this information one is no closer to knowing anything at all about theoretical physics, and one has incurred the opportunity cost of asking a question that gets them no closer to knowing anything about theoretical physics.

This is where the artist of the original cartoon was careful to clarify the ultimate goal of the asker was to do what Michaelangelo does, at the level that Michaelangelo does it.

If one doesn't care to learn about the craft, then it's a tidbit. An anecdote to share at parties. The solution to an escoteric crossword puzzle.

If you want to become a similar master of the craft, it's a waste of a question.

[–] bstix@feddit.dk 0 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

In the case of Michelangelo it is a relevant question though.

At the time it was seemingly impossible to create these kinds of statues using conventional sculpturing techniques. If you try to chisel these shapes in large blocks off marble it would absolutely break in unintended places from chiseling.

Had he used a special tool, then that would have been the simple explanation.

He didn't use special tools though, so having him confirm that he did indeed use a regular round chisel (and a rasp) is crucial to understanding how it was done.

The confirmation is the key information to even start thinking of the follow-up question "how the hell did you do that then?"

Answering "bro, it's my talent" is of very little use to anyone.

From studying his unfinished works historians have been able to figure it out. He used knowledge of counter weight. By leaving large parts of the marble block untouched until the end he managed to balance the marble so that it would not break unintentionally.

A curious fact is that he always kept his unfinished works secret or covered. Nobody was allowed to see it before he was done. He intended to keep his technique secret.

[–] dev_null@lemmy.ml 5 points 8 months ago (1 children)

It's like people asking creators "in what program do you make your videos", as if that's what makes the final video what it is.

[–] XTL@sopuli.xyz 8 points 8 months ago

More likely they have no program at all and thus no ability at all to make videos and they'd like to know where to get a good start.