this post was submitted on 05 Dec 2023
464 points (91.4% liked)

politics

19242 readers
3251 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] doctordevice@lemm.ee 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Ahh, yes. Just completely disregard any criticism of the Democratic Party as "right wing operatives." It couldn't possibly be that they abuse their position as the only other viable option in order to further their plutocratic goals, and the people who have been complaining about it for decades are simply tired of hearing "it's not the right time" ad nauseum.

You know what will convince people who barely managed to vote for Hillary in 2016 and Biden in 2020 to vote against their conscience yet again? Knowing that they'll be instantly blamed anyway when the majority doesn't get their way? Insults and baseless accusations.

[–] MagicShel@programming.dev 5 points 1 year ago

Criticize away. I'm no democrat and I have no love for them. I get into disagreements with those on the left about various things I disagree with. But at the end of the day I can work with democrats and I can't with fascists. Defending freedom and the constitution against tyranny is something I swore an oath to do, and I will vote for nothing but democrats as long as fascism looms here.

[–] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

How is protecting the queer community, women's rights, and the civil rights of PoC, voting against your conscience exactly?

[–] joatmasterofnone@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

None of those are or have been under threat in decades and decades.

Nobody is entitled to special treatment so stop the nonsense.

[–] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago

Decades and decades, way to fuckin out your priv self that spectacularly. For those of us that actually live the experience, we've never stopped being under threat, least of all with folks like you getting so mad that we ask for even a modicum of ongoing protection.

[–] doctordevice@lemm.ee -1 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Because I believe that protecting democracy is a prerequisite to protecting citizens, especially marginalized groups. The Democratic Party, to me, is a threat to democracy. Different from the Republican party, yes. And much less severe. But a threat nonetheless.

This isn't "both sides," the Republicans have 0% chance of ever getting my vote, period. The Democrats can earn my vote but choose not to. In my opinion, they are an active participant in the erosion of democracy in this country. They just have the benefit of only having to do it within their own party.

[–] Feathercrown@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Is this in the general sense or are there specific policies/actions you could point me to as examples?

[–] doctordevice@lemm.ee 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Two in particular:

  1. The DNC has no interest in running an impartial and even-handed primary. It went so far as to argue in court that it was not bound by the language of its charter to run fair primaries. Since the Democratic primary is currently the only place that progressives can voice their political preferences, this practice effectively removes the right to political representation of anyone left of the party.

  2. The Democratic Party engages in pied piper strategies, bolstering extremists within the Republican Party in order to increase their chances of winning the general (by promoting the "you have to vote D to avoid R" rhetoric that this thread started with). Specific to the current political climate, the DNC and the Hillary campaign promoted Trump in the 2016 Republican primary since they saw him as easier to beat than the rest of the field.

So they suppress voters to their left and intentionally radicalize the party and voters to their right.

[–] Feathercrown@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Hmm ok fair enough actually, thanks

[–] joatmasterofnone@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

I could point back to 2016 DNC primaries as a perfect example. The vote of the average Democrat voter means jack shit. The caucus leaders and (I forget the position) leaders in the DNC for each zone/region are the only votes that matters. Quite literally how the DNC told the average Democrat voter, "go fuck yourself we're not putting in Bernie because he's not part of our globalist scheme"

The RNC isn't any better. Willfully tanking candidates that realize BOTH parties are playing for a team that is not for the People and their Rights and freedoms.

[–] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

You believe, because you don't know for certain.

You think those people will be better protected under a republican admin?

Do you think what those people will go through under republican leadership is worth it so that the DNC "learns its lesson" whatever the flying fuck that's supposed to mean because people like you can't even be bothered with the primaries you claim to be so incensed about when you turn your nose up at protecting other people's rights.

Believe it or not democracy is actually not when the candidate with less votes gets forced into the nomination anyways because "trust me bro more people want him bro just ignore he got less votes bro!"

Believe it or not Vote Karen, us folks you're threatening to send back to the Republicans to be rounded up and tormented if not killed for another 4 years are not able to bring you the party's manager.

You believe "protecting democracy" whatever the fuck you think that means, comes ahead of protecting people's lives, and that's a position you can only have if it isn't your life in danger.

You objectively prefer us as dead bodies you can gesture to and shout "SEE!" as if it was some nebulous elite's fault that you refused to save us. You prefer us that way because dead bodies don't expect you to actually show your solidarity even when it's such a herculean strain as waiting in line for a day at most and filling some boxes out.

Be an ally, or quit moaning when the people you claim you're trying to help point out that you're trying to extort a negotiation out of them for something they have no control over because that seems more "revolutionary" to you than just being there to have it go your way in the first fucking place at the primary stage if you're willing to turn us over to the fucking gestapo over it.

[–] doctordevice@lemm.ee 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You believe, because you don't know for certain.

Followed up by you conjuring up all sorts of things you claim I believe to argue against strawmen.

And by the way, I phrase things as "I believe" because that's what humans base their decisions on. None of us know anything 100%. I can recognize that we can work towards the same goal and have different beliefs about the best way to get there. I don't automatically assume that everyone who disagrees with my methods also disagree with my goals.

[–] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah because you have the privilege to not be condemned to possible state sanctioned violence by that "difference in methods" fuckin' priv.

[–] doctordevice@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Hey, guess what? You aren't right about everything. Neither am I. I believe the system continuing as it is will result in more death and suffering than efforts to drag the Democrats left.

You need to learn to argue without accusing your opponent of ill intentions.

[–] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

You need to shut the fuck up and listen to the people who'll be doing the dying and suffering, because those folks are tired of you deciding you know better for them.

Don't want to be called a priv, stop acting like a fuckin' priv.

[–] doctordevice@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago

First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice

https://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/Letter_Birmingham.html

I strive for positive peace, which is not possible through the moderate Democratic party as it is. Voting for Biden simply because he isn't Trump, and insisting that that is the only way forward because it is an absence of tension, is not a good long term strategy. I'm not interested in arguing further unless you can actually argue rather than just spew insults.

Go ahead though, call MLK a "priv."

[–] joatmasterofnone@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Well, who cares about a "threat to Democracy" when we're a Republic?

Shifting towards this "Democracy" has seen nothing but rampant devaluation of currency coupled with massive increase in cost of goods, housing, energy, etc. and loss of Rights and freedoms.

Do they not teach Civics in school anymore?

We should go back to tax-neutral/positive heads of household being the only ones voting as they have a vested interest in the success of this nation. I'll even leave out the land owning part since the "Democracy" chasers fucked most of us out of that one.