this post was submitted on 26 Nov 2023
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A Boring Dystopia
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I think there's more nuance on the topic than you're implying. While there's no actual group called antifa, there are plenty of groups who oppose far right ideology (i.e. anti-fascist/antifa). Some of these groups have definitely become heavily armed and radicalized. I don't support fascists, but I also don't support radicalized zealots of any creed. Does that make me a fascist?
While I'd prefer peaceful resolutions to our problems, I fully understand why left leaning groups are becoming more radicalized. There is little compromise with the theocrats who want to eliminate or subjugate various minority and underrepresented groups within our society, continually hand more and more power to corporations, wholeheartedly believe the end of days is coming once Israel fully takes control of the holy land, and will scream "Second Amendment" and "Crisis Actors" every time kids are killed in school shootings. They violently stormed the US Capitol many of whole had intent to kill Senators and Representatives.
There is no compromise or peaceful resolution with people who want to hurt you or worse because their pastor said you're a demonic sinner who must be cleansed from the earth.
Yeah those fuckers want to kill me for even existing, if i armed up it would be entirely to defend myself.
So your saying your extremely interested in staying alive? Gotcha!
I would greatly prefer to stay alive, yes. Still haven't loaded up on weapons, though.
No, it makes you a person that probably won't do squat to stop fascists.
It's no coincidence wthat it's only radicals that show up to physically confront fascists while the so-called "enlightened centrists" do nothing but heckle from the sidelines.
Yup. Or when anyone tries to do anything they will just come up with reasons why it's wrong.
The media was quick to forget that they were literally trying to criminalize the wearing of masks before Covid hit because "Antifa Scary."
So, yeah.
As someone who's been in several combat zones with the US military (honorably discharged 10 years ago), I can safely say I do not want my backyard turning into one. So pardon me while I wait for all peaceful options to be utterly exhausted before getting gun-happy and LARPing with others in fatigues while shouting for armed resistance.
If MAGAs or any other "militia" begins marching down my street, I'll sure as shit meet it with force. But until then or an outright coup, I'll continue advocating for peace
Nobody's asking you to break out the claymore mines just yet... it's the fascists that are escalating the lethality, not the "scary radical left" opposing them.
It's usually a good idea to try and stop the fash before they march down your street... by the time they do, the politicians might just have decided to hand them the keys to the tanks - which they will, eventually.
But confronting fascists is good optics for them. They want to be able to point to shit like that to show how oPpReSsEd they are for their oPiNIoNs. It's fuel. Ignore the marches. A news article covering a bunny of dudes waving nazi flags and nobody giving a shit is infinitely optically better than a brawl between nazis and antifa.
Absolutely not.
Anyone who believes that understands nothing about fascism at all. The pretense of "unopposable strength" is literally the only reason they will show themselves in public - if you don't oppose it forcefully they win by default.
The media will happily ignore fascism. After all, the rich media bosses know who it is that will protect their precious private property for them, just like all the rich people do... that is why they fund fascists - there is no such thing as "grassroots fascism". The fact that antifa's resistance meant they couldn't is literally one of the reasons the US's secret police is now seeing antifa as a threat to the status quo.
Ignoring fascism is no different than ignoring climate change - doing so doesn't make it go away.
What do you think was more optically advantageous for the left, a bunch of patriot front idiots getting arrested just for marching, or antifa and the proud boys brawling?
We're not at the point of civil war. Optics are still more important than punching them.
Actually, portraying your enemy as both strong and weak is crucial to fascism. To nazis, the jews were simultaneously subhuman and also in control of the world. To the alt right, the left is simultaneously soy boy beta cucks and nazi punching radicals. If you remove yourself from their narrative, it fails apart. And instead of brave defenders of western culture under attack from crazy leftist extremists, they simply become weird motherfuckers waving nazi flags in (current year).
I'm not gonna say don't punch nazis, but don't do it in an organized fashion at a rally where they hope to provoke a reaction.
Showing the fascists - and their spineless "centrist" allies - that they will face real opposition in the streets. When the fash start marching, that is the only optics that matter.
Arrested by whom? Their KKK and neo-nazi allies you optimistically call "police"?
You don't have to believe me, Clyde... you can hear it straight from a neo-nazi, too.
https://www.npr.org/2022/06/11/1104405804/patriot-front-white-supremacist-arrested-near-idaho-pride
Yes.
Sooo... you're just going to conveniently ignore this.
And this.
And this.
And this.
And this.
And this.
And, surprise, surprise, this.
At this point I have to ask... are you sure you're not a bit sympathetic to fascism yourself?
Yes, I know, that's my point. In a clash between fash and antifa, we know what police are going to do. If nobody engages with them and their behavior becomes such that the police themselves actually have to arrest them, that's amazing.
We'll continue this conversation when you come back to the real world, okay?
Sure, just "ignore" it, conveniently forgetting they're very much embedded in mainstream politics now and starting culture war campaigns, banning books, and actively attempting to dismantle democracy.
Fascism in the US is already here.
it seems the less energic options are already exhausted.
i dont want to be on the receiving end of state violence either but i dont think things can change by simply voting or protesting anymore.
this doesnt necessarily mean violence but we must change our strategy.
My stance on Jan 6 was had it been successful and Trump was installed as president, it would have been up to people like you to actually resist the new tyrannical government.
Because at that point, democracy was usurped and the necessary peace transfer of power was ignored for a violent insurrection.
The problem is that J6 was a test run. It was not successful because people with morals, many of whom were registered Republicans, stood firm and said this isn't right. Many of these people have been replaced over the last three years to make stealing an election easier at a state level so that they won't need to steal it at the federal level.
I'm not saying there aren't peaceful options. But one side has already decided that peace is not an option. They showed that they will have their form of government, by force if necessary.
Downvoted because veteran
Oh give it a break.
Please shut up.
Downvoted because poor
They are dropping the "good people on both sides" banger
Maybe with another organization you would have a point, but in the case of the FBI which has been known to aid and recruit fascists I don’t see this holding any water.
I think you're thinking of the CIA.
Why? You think the FBI is (somehow) not serving the interests of a fundamentally white supremacist empire?
The problem is that letting fascist types run rampant and hoping they'll just go away historically doesn't tend to work out well.
I live in Portland. Up until 2021 or so fascists, proud boys, Patriot prayer, etc. All ran rampant in cahoots with local law enforcement. People were menaced, paintballed, attacked and all that. It sucked. The sniveling mayor begged those groups not to come in (they're never local) and act like that. Shockingly they did anyway.
Portland fought back
It was unpleasant, but it worked. Those assholes haven't tried to have their gatherings here in a couple of years. Self described antifa groups are still on edge but have largely diminished in activity. You don't see antifa rallies designed to menace going out to the surrounding small towns where those assholes largely come from. Unless you're sporting some obviously fash flair pretty much everyone gets left alone in town.
Both sides are not the same
That was a good read, tyvm
Radicals aren't the same as extremists. And that is an important distinction to understand when dealing with politics. Being armed and willing to defend yourself isn't an act of extremism. Being violent towards violent fascists isn't extremism. It's community defense. When you break down politics into it's most base element, it's about the distribution of the legitimate use of violence. Understanding and working within that framework isn't extremism, it's politics 101. Philosophy Tube has a good video on this in relation to fascism. Skip to ~20 mins in for the violence bit.
For most of Lemmy, yes, that makes you a fascist.
Well, you know *gestures vaguely at all the far-right stuff going on in the United States"
yes that makes you a fascist.
i think that you should be quiet and postulate that garbage to the dump.
https://www.businessinsider.com/right-wing-extremists-kill-329-since-1994-antifa-killed-none-2020-7