this post was submitted on 06 Nov 2023
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I'm a leftist who isn't a tankie. I don't much care about China and I think the struggle for liberation can only be fought where we are at. I don't uncritically accept the propaganda and the worldview of the state I seek to destroy at face value. Thus I do not accept claims about "genocide" committed by the US' main rival without good evidence. Having principles and critical faculties are important to my politics. What about you? What makes you, someone who identifies liberals as "center-left," significantly different from them? Your conditional support for Palestinian liberation?
like, "such and such country is committing genocide and covering it up!" is a very serious claim! fortunately, it is also very incredible. it's improbable that mass murder of a population can go almost totally unnoticed except for reports and evidence from sources that are demonstrably untrustworthy. Just knowing who Adrian Zenz is should be making you suspicious unless you've completely disabled your bullshit detectors.
It's very easy to say this, because it means you can just reject any evidence to the contrary as "not good" or "biased".
Separating children from their parents. Raising them to be assimilated with the majority culture. Clamping down on their expression of their culture. These are all acts of genocide.
The most untrustworthy source here is the Chinese government themselves. Any report from a country should be treated with scepticism, but none more so than when that country clamps down on the free press.
We have so many reports out of Xinjiang. Leaks from people in the province itself. Reports from the family of people there. Evidence inferred from satellite imagery and what information is publicly available from the Chinese government. There's just no denying it. You can choose to pretend China's doing nothing wrong if you like. I hope you sleep well, knowing you're defending genocide.
Accusations of genocide aren't a fucking game. It's either happening or it isn't. Either the evidence is good or the evidence is bad (and all evidence is biased) So give us some good evidence.
What evidence would you accept? Because you act as though you've already convinced yourself it's not real and wouldn't accept any evidence to the contrary. What, precisely, would convince you that you're wrong, if firsthand accounts aren't good enough?
How about firsthand testimony that can be corroborated. If you've ever been in court for anything, it's standard to not simply take whatever story you hear at face value.
So point to a story you're saying is true, then show how it can be corroborated (by video? by documentation?). Show how there is no realiatic alternate explanation. Explain how your corroborated story amounts to genocide, and isn't just a story about someone being arrested, for instance.
https://www.npr.org/2021/06/10/1005263835/new-report-details-firsthand-accounts-of-torture-from-uyghur-muslims-in-china This is the first result when I typed in "uyghur firsthand account"
I'll read it when I get home in a few hours unless you have another source(s) you'd prefer.
Of fucking course lmao
"Freedom of the press" is a joke. I can see what our "free press" is doing with the butchery of Gaza. At a certain point you have to accept that your understanding of the facts is not, and has never been unmediated.
Yes, I know that's what China believes. That's why it's so important.
I've invited you to learn literally anything about this subject before commenting further. Not much else I can do you help you.
Our prudent and judicious public broadcasting institutions
VS
Their tyrannical censored state propaganda centers
Can you make a coherent argument from their position, or do you not understand your own boogeyman?
“All over the world, wherever there are capitalists, freedom of the press means freedom to buy up newspapers, to buy writers, to bribe, buy and fake 'public opinion' for the benefit of the bourgeoisie.”
Read theory
I sleep fine. Sometimes I jerk off first.
Part of developing mental maturity is coming to understand that other people might genuinely believe in a differing set of facts from you. And my facts are based on evidence.
To be clear. If you call yourself a leftist, and you pretend China isn't committing genocide, that makes you a tanky. That's what tankies are: people who claim to be leftists who support violent authoritarian regimes.
As a 5 eyes resident you seem like you're pretty supportive of the violent authoritarian USian regime.
Where, precisely, did I suggest that at all?
Pretending western media isn't censored, for one
You're repeating their media narrative μαλακά
iirc the person you're replying to is an anarchist not an ML, so they're not a tankie, unless your definition of tankie is just "anybody who isn't extremely anti-china and believes literally whatever the same press that told us that North Korea had claimed to find a unicorn, that the cuban government was committing a genocide within its own borders and is currently doing apologia for a real genocide of innocent muslims"