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Yep, people like to look and see black and white, but situation is very complex.
Is a roller coaster when you start learning more about it, but it followed:
Oh the fuck this is so complex, and the worst thing is there isn't any way solution in sight because at least one side doesn't want any compromise.
I saw comment and I believe it is most accurate of this situation. There won't be a peace until Palestinians will start loving their children more than they hate Jews.
Again, I don't support what Israeli government is doing, they do kill innocent people in the process, but Palestinians aren't exactly greatest neighbors either. The countries that in the past accepted them as refugees ended up having civil wars started by them.
the Jewish Diaspora started with the Romans. The Arabs have historically treated Jews better than Christians.
You misinformation only helps to muddy the waters.
Maybe better than Europeans but not 'well' there have been discriminatory laws in many Muslim countries over the years and most Muslim countries have ethnically cleaned their countries of Jews, Jewish communities in Iraq, syria etc... Pre date islam.
And of course under ottoman rule their were laws against Jews immigrating to palestine
And Iran (even though not Arab) is the only country outside Israel to ~reverse~ reserve a seat in parliament specifically for a Jewish representative.
You mean reserve?
Oops!! Yes, I do.
This is misinformation. Even Hamas said they want a two-state solution. Fucking Hamas. Meanwhile Israel... Well you can look up Netenyahu's position on the conflict yourself.
Yes, the Israeli government.
Tbf, aside from lobbing missile into other country, Hamas has to bear some blame here. If they would recognize Israel as a country, the conflict will likely turn its tide. That is the compromise they wouldn't take.
I'm not sure how that would happen. There have been two ceasefires with Hamas that fell apart because Israel didn't lift the blockade as promised, even as Hamas followed it for months on end.
We already know Netenyahu's position on Palestine; he's not exactly trying to hide it, and the West Bank is currently being colonized (up to and including pogroms) by Israel so it's not like peace is working either.
Are you old enough to remember the Olso accords and the peace process? Pals have been offered states numerous times, they don't want it , they want to fight, every resource they use for terror. Israel is just supposed to make concessions until the pals come around to peace ? They will not.
You don't understand the mindset, if you lived in any Muslim country particularly in the Midwest you would find things very difficult, particularly if you are a women, or gay, or a non Muslim. They will kill a woman who doesn't wear her scarf, forget about talking to men... these people are fascist in a way that you do not understand
You just don't put out statements calling their country illegitimate - it's not rocket science.
And while we're on the subject of rocket science, stop fucking launching rockets at Israeli civilians
No one is defending Hamas shooting rockets at Israel, who has an Iron Dome to protect them anyway.
The PLO recognized Israel. What was the result?
Because by then all the ball will be on Netanyahu's court. When Hamas announce their new charter, US made it clear that if it doesn't include recognizing Israel as a country then they will not have a dialog. Of course, at that time there's Trump so it won't work regardless, and now it's too late.
It's been for a long time now. Netenyahu and his ilk have made it very clear they don't want a Palestinian state. Like they're turning it into an election platform. The PLO recognized Israel in preparation for the Oslo Accords, and what happened? What's the state of the PNA now?
Again, this presupposes that every single person living in Gaza deserves to pay for the crimes of Hamas.
You can look up the hamas charter, they advocate genocide.
You are ignorant of history, pals have been offered statehood numerous times throughout the years and their position has always been there can be no Jewish presence in Israel.
The PLO dropped that position in the 80s, and even Hamas dropped it sometime in the 2000s/2010s. You're the one who's ignorant of history. And they're not pals, they're Palestinians.
No hamas has not https://irp.fas.org/world/para/docs/880818a.htm
And regardless of what they say their actions speak louder than words and they lie about absolutely everything, how naive.couod you be? Didn't you see hamas on cnn this week saying things like they did not target civilians on 10/7, they are decrepit.
Their actions also include two permanent ceasefires in 2008 and 2012 that Israel didn't follow.
The Israeli government offered to create the first Palestinian country in human history and Hamas counter-offered with the destruction of Israel.
Which offer, exactly?
They've done it like 3 or 4 times, but a quick Google search will provide many details
Yes, I'm asking which one so I can explain in detail why what you said up there makes no sense.
Oh well then this is a stupid discussion.
I'm not interested in your alternate take on history.
You might want to continue to learn about the issue, as your comment is not exactly an even analysis. It seems more like a narrative wrapped up in surface-level analysis.
Wow, I’m amazed someone has taken such a poor journey.
It's not complex at all. Palestinians have been ejected from their homes time and again by the State of Israel. Now they've been forced out of the West Bank and are all in Gaza, an open air prison. Hamas, a terrorist group, attacks Israel. Israel indiscriminately starts bombing Gaza where half of the inmates are children. Predictably, loads of civilians and children die.
People with a soul are on the side of the innocent civilians being murdered in an open air prison they were forced into by the apartheid Israeli government. It's really that simple.
It was Egypt that turned Gaza into a prison in '48... And I don't think Israel ever forced anyone from the WB to go live in Gaza? It seems it's not really that simple
The simple reality is that islam is a fascist religion and are willing to live in peace with a Jewish state of any borders, look up the 1948 UN partition, whereas Israel has made numerous offers and concessions to peace over the year.
I promise you any thing you say for why pals are justified in their actions because of their oppression is a distortion of history, that pals have started every single conflict.
Unless your position is that the quaran was revealed to Mohamed by God and Hamas has interpreted correctly to say that there can only be Muslim nations in the world then you are supporting fascist idiotic terrorists.
Jews are the natives of the land, you can see there is a mosque built on the Jewish temple, Islam is the colonizer, islam is intolerant, and it's not just in Israel, it's in many countries
Yeah, because the Tanakh is so benevolent and all iterations of it are peaceful. Fuck this Sam Harris justification for Islamophobia. All these religions can be fascist, all these religions can be peaceful.
Followers of Islam once carried on the spirit of enlightenment and philosophy while Christians were in the depths of their dark ages. They maintained the knowledge that came from across the old world, while making essential contributions to important things like: The scientific method, social science as a field, economics, culture, and mathematics.
Where the fuck do you think Arabic numerals like 1, 9, or 0 came from? Europe? No. They were invented in India and spread through the world by Islamic cultures and states. Everyone on earth uses these numerals, a universal human language, all thanks to the Islamic world.
So fuck your assertions that Islam is a uniquely terrible religion. If Islam is a religion that can't exist in a peaceful world, no religion can exist in a peaceful world. How can a religion that helped everyone speak the same language, that has historically existed at the crossroads between Europe, Asia, and Africa, be incompatible with other cultures? It's a non factor in the discussion of Palestine and Israel.
ISIS and hamas are not enlightened islam, a religion follows it's interpretation and what ISIS and Hamas do is blasphemy. Islam is not from God, it may have worked in the middle ages but now people who are reading it are insane fundamentalist. There are peaceful Muslims but not the mullahs in Iran, or ISIS or Hamas. Yes the bible says to kill people who violate the sabbath but functionally speaking no one is killed for violating the sabbath and it was not even interpreted that way in biblical times. The war musings of the quaran are interpreted this way by Muslims around the world.
You should look at the Hasbara to help with your discourse.
Holy fuck was this information and reasoning ordained to you by some invisible, omnipotent, and master-of-paradoxes being by any chanc e?
I am triggered by your chanc e. Please kindly fix the typo. 👻