this post was submitted on 01 Sep 2023
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I have a little bit of sympathy for people who are from another era, and are stubborn but not intentionally hateful or dismissive. The Bette Midler quote is the only example from this article. Before, she’d never come across as someone who judges people or wants to treat them like second class citizens.
She should have kept her mouth shut, at least. Although making an uninformed remark is quicker and easier than educating yourself, I wish she had taken the time.
Santana, however, can kiss my ass.
I don't. Trans people are a new thing for me too, they didn't "exist" in my formative years. I grew up in Oklahoma surrounded by conservative Bible-belt redneck N-word-spouting family, at a public school where "gay" and "hermaphrodite" were used as gym insults. I'm a straight-passing white cis male with pretty blue eyes, the least oppressed motherfucker out here and a perfect candidate for growing up to be a shitty supremacist.
Yet I'm the farthest thing from one, because all it actually takes is asking myself "Why should I have a problem with this? Does it affect anyone other than the person being made happier?" When the answer comes up as "no," it's A-OK in my book. And don't get me started on the pricks who think "but I'm Christian!!!" is an excuse for anything, God is supposed to judge us, not my asshole neighbor Karen who grew up on leaded gas and cigarettes.
Cool. Maintaining flexibility is hard. I wish more people were better at it.
Part of my “cut them a bit of slack” attitude comes from personal experience. I’ve been watching an otherwise good person shift gradually further right. Since retirement, they watch TV almost constantly, which unfortunately includes Fox News (I was going to say “too much Fox News”, but any amount of that crap is too much).
Midler came up playing the NYC bathhouses which were essentially fuck clubs for gay men before AIDS shuttered them all. I have a difficult time seeing her being anti-LGBT given how gay her fan base traditionally was.
She’s not anti-gay, she’s anti-trans.
Her comment sounds like she isn't anti trans but more has a problem with terms like birthing person instead of cis-woman or woman depending on context.
It's not anti-trans to suggest we use the term women rather than birthing person when discussing pregnancy fir example.
Except that it is, because it erases entire swaths of people who are able to give birth but who aren't women. Birthing person is inclusive of women and everyone else. I don't understand the problem.
It also doesn’t refer to cis women who are unable to give birth for any variety of reasons. It’s specifically not referring to a pretty sizable group of cis women while also including people who aren’t cis women, because cis women aren’t the ones being referred to; birthing people are.
Didn't even think about that, that's a valid point. Thank you for bringing that up.
Why is it ok to force a descriptor on a group of people that do not identify with said term?
Because it is meant to be used in healthcare care settings in reference to groups of people. It is a way more accurate and complete description of the cohort. Nobody is going around calling individual women "birthing people." Midler took a term out of context and tried to claim people are trying to erase women, which is classic TERF behavior
Oh, I'm sure she's still very pro-LGB. Most TERFs are (for now at least). It's the T part of the equation that they think it's acceptable to hate
TERFs may be the dumbest people alive. How are you going to be all about equality and acceptance after literally thousands of years of women being mistreated, only to turn around and do that to a different group and see no problem with it? Absolutely mindless.
Sounds like her issue is with terms like birthing person rather than cis-woman.
Those complaints originated in TERF circles
But they are not equivalent. People that erase trans people read it like that and project. In a medical setting, the biology is important and the language makes sure all parts involved are included in the conversation.
This begs the question why is it acceptable to assign terms to people they do not identify as? Your comment would make sense in medical discussions about people giving birth but that's not how it is being used.
It does not beg that question because that is literally how it is being used. Your continued hammering of that point is simply untrue and feels incredibly disingenuous since multiple people have told you that is how it is being used
It is being used to describe someone in a way they would prefer not to be used for them. Is this really that hard to see the overt hypocrisy in?
There's a distinct difference between complaining that you were labeled a certain way and being a celebrity and writing a rant apropos of nothing on Twitter about how an amorphous "they" are not calling us women anymore.
You're right that no one should be referred to in a way they don't want to be, but that only applies when they're not being intolerant. Punch Nazis and call them assholes and Nazis. It's good and cool.
Way to be purposely obtuse. I'm sure that is working well for you