this post was submitted on 27 Aug 2023
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[–] Mr_Blott@feddit.uk 27 points 1 year ago (33 children)

TIL about the Christiana commune. Interesting!

[–] squaresinger@feddit.de 65 points 1 year ago (32 children)

I love that story! I tell it every time someone tries to sell me on anarchism.

Christiana was an old military complex that the government gave up on, so anarchist squatters moved in.

Soon they realized, that they needed some way to decide matters that concerned everyone. So they formed small councils, and in these councils they each chose some people to represent them in one big council. These people weren't elected politicians, just people chosen to represent them. They then voted on issues, and no, that wasn't a form of democracy. It's still anarchism.

Then then realized, that the upkeep of common areas and infrastructure costs money, so they required that everyone paid their share. That obviously weren't taxes. Just mandatory contributions.

When organized crime started to spread, they decided on some mandatory rules (you read right: these weren't laws, just mandatory rules that you had to keep if you didn't want to face punishment). Then they chose some strong men that should make sure the rules were followed. No, not police men. Just concerned strong men.

They worked together with Kopenhagen's police. Basically, they'd call the cops and then drag the offenders outside of Christiania to the waiting cops.

Part of the rules were that it wasn't allowed to consume hard drugs or to wear motor cycle gang attire.

So in the end, they had no politicians, no government, no taxes and no police force. Just things that where basically identical to these things. The only thing they really don't have is a prison, because they outsourced that to Kopenhagen.

Anarchism directly leads to a form of government, no matter how you call it.

If you want an opposite example, how anarchism lead to an anarcho-capitalistic nightmare, where the community decended into a rule by organized crime, google the Kowloon Walled City. It's equally interesting.

[–] nabax@lemmy.world 24 points 1 year ago (4 children)

But anarchism is a form of government. Just a collectivelly decided on one. Self-gorvernment, in particular.

When was the last time you directly chose your policemen and direct representatives in a community meeting?

Obviously, though, you can't have an anarchist oasis in the middle of a capitalist city and world, so in the end any isolated anarchist experiments are bound to be imperfect.

[–] eric5949@lemmy.cloudaf.site 26 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Your depiction of anarchism is literally just direct democracy.

They're the same picture.

[–] ninjan@lemmy.mildgrim.com 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Sure, but what happened in Christiania was more direct democracy than anarchism. The problem with democracy is that engagement goes down the drain when you reach "good enough" and then you get situations like the ones arising all around the west. Corruption, incompetence and the hateful minority getting an outsized mandate due to the apathy of the masses.

[–] elbarto777@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

How long has Christiania been existing for? Decades instead of centuries? Give it time.

[–] 00@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Did anyone argue that time was the problem?

[–] elbarto777@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

Nope. Though I did say that time was a reason.

[–] snor10@lemm.ee 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Isn't sheriffs elected officials in the US?

[–] squaresinger@feddit.de 7 points 1 year ago

Yes, and that's part of the reason why the police in the US is in such a terrible state. Because uneducated populists who have no clue about policework can easily become sheriff just by fearmongering during the elections.

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