Transform2942

If you don't want to hear about billionaires, I invite you to try.... billionaire controlled media! You will find they are scarcely mentioned at all, except to glorify the accomplishments of individual billionaires, with no consideration of class structure or generational privilege

People would rather burn the world down than add lifetime annotations SMH

Yes.

Socialception

Ahh, of course, I forgot that might makes right

Ahhh, of course, we are going to reach for the "Anti-Zionism = Anti- Semitism" defense. For the record, I make common cause with any Jewish people who oppose colonialism and genocide, like these honest and noble folks: https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/

Interesting, I wonder what happened immediately before the state of Israel declared Independence? Funny how you and the other occupiers never want to talk about the Nakba. Funny how you want to talk about declaring independence but not about displacing hundreds of thousands and destroying or colonizing hundreds of villages and towns.

How about this: return all the land that was taken in the Nakba, then we can stop talking about the destruction of the occupier state. Is that civil and fair enough for you? Or was it always about stealing the land from the beginning?

I don't really give a shit if resistance fighters check all the right civility boxes. The occupiers were already given most of the land in 1949, but that just wasn't enough. Fuck genocidal setters. Fuck false equivalence. Fuck apartheid. The PLO has played the civility game all these years, how has that worked out for them? Israel is an evil and corrupt society (the US is too).

assault with intent to annihilate

So we're just making up serious sounding phrases to try and balance the scales? Which side is bulldozing houses and stealing land? Which side is practicing brutal apartheid? Which side FUCKING BOMBS SCHOOLS AND HOSPITALS?

Jesus fucking Christ get outside of your media bubble every once in awhile.

I suspect that you can't because you have built a comfortable occupier existence for yourself, so you can't look at the pile of bodies forming the foundation of your existence.

Now it seems we've reached a "verbal argument" where it's just an argument over definitions, which I'm not interested in.

This is where I'm personally going to leave this:

Some people see the 70 -year genocide of the Palestinians as an unspeakable atrocity that plainly justifies violent and non-violent resistance.

Some people want to center the fears of the occupiers in the discussion, and use that to throw up their hands and shut down any action or solution that isn't on the occupiers' terms.

Again, this is an essential distinction. States are not peoples. A national group is the people of a state, not the state itself.

The axis states ceased to exist after world war II. Despite gratuitous bombing by allied forces, the peoples of the states continue to exist, and largely inhabit the same territory.

Seemingly by your argument, land can be seized, people expelled, war crimes committed, but if you have created a state, it would be inherently wrong to dislodge you. I personally don't regard states as a magic blanket that rules out decolonization by definition.

I certainly don't grant "Israel has a right to exist" from the jump. What right? From whom? For the record, I don't think the settlers in the United States have any right over stolen native lands.

I don't grant that the dissolution of a colonialist theocracy state is the same thing as a genocide. States are not peoples. Decolonization is not genocide.

There would certainly be peace the day after a nuclear apocalypse too