None.
this post was submitted on 01 Aug 2023
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Asklemmy
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None. I was raised Lutheran and it never really was important to me, just something I was forced to do. I sorta liked the singing and community aspects, but by high school I was done with it. I try not to be a reddit atheist though, I honestly respect anyone whose religion brings them to similar moral conclusions as my own. There is plenty in the christian bible to get you there, helping the poor and the sick, giving up material wealth and living in common, but in america the vast majority of christians do not follow the teachings of jesus in any meaningful way, so I'm not too broken up about no longer being christian, and even the highly progressive churches have often been pretty culty in my and my friends' experience.
Nondualism. I looked in direct experience.
Christian. I have been a non-practising Christian for all my life until my wife and I was through some personal events. And since have I been attending church regularly.
Roman Catholic here. I was born and raised as a Roman Catholic but there was a time in my life that I really wanted to put that to the test since I wasn't entirely sure if I truly believed in it or it was just something that I've known all my life. When I went to university, I took this subject called Medieval Philosophy which focused on the philosophical underpinnings of the Catholic theologians like Thomas Aquinas. Funny enough, it was being taught by an atheist who had a great appreciation for the philosophy behind Catholic theology. It was a life changing experience that not only strengthened my belief in God, but made me understand morality and humanity in a deeper sense.
None.
Being queer.
I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
I was born into, but as I grew, I had to know for myself it was true or not. I did a lot of praying and reading, and one day received an answer to my prayers. In this case, the best I can describe is a flow of light and knowledge, and a confirmation to my Spirit that it was true.
From then on I've had more experiences, but that was the start, and that is why I continue on the path I'm on.
What is your Spirit? Can you describe its properties and offer some evidence to show the rest of us that it exists? How do you know you received an answer to your prayers? How might someone else replicate this experience?
There certainly is a replication process, as found in the Book of Moroni (a section within the Book of Mormon), chapter 10, verses 4 & 5
"4.And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.
5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things."
As for knowing it was my Spirit feeling an impression, it's much the same as people knew what emotions were long before we could see activity in the brain; through experience we can recognize and understand it even though it does not as yet appear on a scan.
To paraphrase a church scholar Hugh Nibley, it's not that science and https://apps.apple.com/us/app/gospel-library/id598329798 contractadict, but that incomplete religion and incomplete science do. Complete religion and complete science work fine together.
For properties, we go to Doctrine and Covenants (another standard work in our church), section 93, verse 29
"29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be"
In other words, the building blocks are intelligences. Now, when those intelligences come together, they can be formed into a Spirit.
Moving to section 131, verses 7 and 8
"7 There is no such thing as immaterial matter. All spirit is matter, but it is more fine or pure, and can only be discerned by purer eyes;
8 We cannot see it; but when our bodies are purified we shall see that it is all matter"
To reframe my experience then, the Holy Ghost, a member of the Godhead along with Jesus Christ and The Father (who are separate beings), spoke to my Spirit in a way I can sense and understand internally but, much like emotions before brain scanning, I cannot show.
Certainly happy to answer more questions (though I will be on the road today).
There is an app that contains all our standard works and will make finding these and other references easier. I believe there is also a section for Gospel Topics
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/gospel-library/id598329798
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.lds.ldssa&hl=en_US&gl=US
Every single one of the things you mentioned are claims, not evidence. Maybe I can rephrase my question:
When I buy a delicious Share Size Snickers bar at the 7-11, I see on the package that it claims that the bar weighs 3.86 ounces. It feels a little light to me; I am skeptical of the fact that this particular Share Size Snickers bar weighs what it claims on the package. My options are:
- Take the weight printed on the package as the truth and don't question it any further;
- Put the bar on a scale and measure its weight independently, to confirm whether the weight is correct.
With regard to religion, you appear to be doing only #1, and I'm asking how I can do #2. What are the tools and evidence I can use, akin to the scale, that are independent of the religious text (= the Snickers wrapper) and can show me that your claims are valid?
The same question could apply to emotions. How do you put it on a scale and measure it's weight? As a sufferer of mental illness myself, the same question applies there: how do you put mental illness on a scale?
Yet, well before the advent of CT scans and other medical wonders, people didn't doubt the existence of emotion or mental problems.
They may not have known the cause, but they understood them based on their experience and the effect on behavior.
Emotions can't be seen, but you can see the effect they have on a person. In the same way, no, you can't put Spirit on a scale, but you can see it's effect in people's lives and feel it through experience
OK, so it sounds like you're freely admitting that there is currently no test, evidence, measurement, or other way that you can show the truth of your claims.
Edit: Also, I don't think I've ever seen what you're talking about regarding seeing a spirit's effect in people's lives, and I definitely haven't felt it myself.
Therefore, I claim that while I believe you are being honest and genuinely think you feel a spirit, it doesn't actually exist, and instead you have been indoctrinated into a cult (which you freely admit you were born into), and that indoctrination has programmed you to believe things that don't actually exist. I'd like to find a way to determine which of us is correct. How do we do that?
Obviously you can't prove it one way or another. That's the whole point. Are you new?
Obviously you canβt prove it one way or another. Thatβs the whole point. Are you new?
Nope, I'm old.
But I prefer not to base my life choices on things that are unprovable, and one of us has claims that are backed by at least some amount of evidence (the existence of missionaries, documentation of brainwashing techniques used by the particular church that OP belongs to, documentation of the financial motivations driving said church to continue brainwashing people, the sheer utter logical ridiculousness of the specific claims of that church), and the other does not. So I'll continue taking the default, rational, skeptical position, until there is sufficient evidence to do otherwise.
Was Secular Humanist atheist 1998-2013 until converting to moderate Sunni Hanafi Islam to date law abiding london pakistanis. I quit alcohol 2006 and was straight edge before so very against intoxication. racist parents repeatedly tried to force me into according to northwell south oaks "incest" arranged marriages with uneducated feminists I have nothing in common with as an engineer.
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I'm an atheist. I find all the religious arguments deeply nonsensical.