this post was submitted on 15 Mar 2025
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Summary

Canada is reconsidering its F-35 fighter jet purchase amid rising tensions with the Trump administration.

Defence Minister Bill Blair stated Canada is exploring alternatives to the $19-billion contract for 88 jets, suggesting Canada might accept the first 16 already paid for while sourcing remaining aircraft from European suppliers like Saab.

This follows Trump's tariff threats and comments about "annexing Canada by economic force."

The Swedish-built Saab Gripen, which finished second in the competition, offers assembly in Canada, thus avoiding dependence on U.S.-based maintenance.

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[–] beejboytyson@lemmy.world 2 points 9 hours ago

Idk about this.

We wasted millions on jets that didn't work before and got nothing in return. This could be another form of funneling money upwards.

[–] hikuro93@lemmy.ca 33 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

Shouldn't even be up for consideration at this point. Buy jets from trustworthy people (like EU), and if you want total defense independence start building the framework to build Canadian jets for when these ones approach EoL.

[–] 7rokhym@lemmy.ca 22 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

Sane countries with coherent foreign policy release this type of messaging in advance of reversing a $70 billion dollar contract. The F35 deal is dead. The trillions of dollars worth of goodwill and brand damage Trump has done to the US is hard to fathom. He is like a category 5 hurricane crossing the US for 40 days and 40 nights. #UnitedStatesOfEmbarrassment

[–] hikuro93@lemmy.ca 7 points 19 hours ago

Yeah. Agreed.

[–] Quexotic@infosec.pub 17 points 21 hours ago (3 children)

I read that it's trivially easy for the US to remotely disable those planes. Seems like a security concern to use them.

[–] ipkpjersi@lemmy.ml 2 points 12 hours ago

That alone should be reason enough to not buy it. I bet it's not even trivial to verify if that's the case which gives even more reason to not go ahead with the purchase.

[–] SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca 12 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

They can't shut them off. They can do something like MS is doing with EOLing Windows 10 tho. No more security updates, which in this case means they'd over time become more vulnerable to adversary ECM jamming.

They could cut off a country from getting parts needed to keep the planes flying which is actually more significant. It wouldn't be easy, but a country could replace the computer systems in a jet. A military has it's own technicians maintain their equipment and they would understand which signals are needed from the cockpit to make the plane work.

The Lockheed Martin could shut down the planes thing is FUD and isn't convincing anyone in the know. The potential for cutting a country off from resupply is real, and the US has done that to Ukraine, a country in the middle of a war.

[–] Quexotic@infosec.pub 2 points 9 hours ago

My understanding is that that plane needs to "call home" daily or it won't work.

I couldn't find the article, but found a more recent one that basically agrees with you, except on the whole replacement of the computer systems. That plane took so long to complete and had so many problems, im betting it's easier to design a new plane rather than reverse engineer this one but that's neither here nor there.

I think the largest issue is the over-dependence on the US military across the board which as you mentioned, we see playing out in the Ukraine already.

Do you think the EU has what it takes to rebuild fast enough to stand up for themselves alone?

I hope so. I'm not informed enough to know.

[–] Fredthefishlord@lemmy.blahaj.zone -1 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

Yeah you read a lot of things. Doesn't mean they're true.

[–] Quexotic@infosec.pub 2 points 9 hours ago

Correct. I did follow up today and read some more sources and it sounds like it's not quite as simple a story, but the dependence on the US military seems to be a significant issue. I found a better article with a more nuanced take here if you're interested in that sort of thing: https://theaviationist.com/2025/03/10/f-35-kill-switch-myth/

[–] perestroika@lemm.ee 50 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Not continuing to buy aircraft from a country whose current leader threatens with hostile action seems only 100% reasonable.

I would advise them to keep the ones they have, though - given their current threat model, until the US president changes, they need a "red team" to practise against.

[–] LeninsOvaries@lemmy.cafe 6 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago)

They should send their pilots to Ukraine to practice until the war with America starts

Or Israel. The IDF might be too tough, though.

[–] cyd@lemmy.world 29 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Canada needs to redirect most of its defence spending to asymmetric warfare. You know, the same advice US consultants give to Taiwan to make a PRC occupation more expensive to contemplate. Forget about big ticket items meant to support the US in its overseas wars; start investing in mines, guerilla equipment, etc.

[–] ikidd@lemmy.world 10 points 20 hours ago

Watch us go from "you can't own scary black rifle" to "here's your annual home armory allotment of hand grenades".

[–] BackYardIncendiary@lemmy.sdf.org 13 points 22 hours ago

Can we add non-nuclear EMP weapons? Asking for a friend.

[–] Hobbes_Dent@lemmy.world 108 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Why would we want brickable planes from an aggressor?

[–] sik0fewl@lemmy.ca 40 points 1 day ago (1 children)

This would be like the US buying MiGs during the cold war.

[–] mmddmm@lemm.ee 35 points 1 day ago (2 children)

The Migs aren't always online, controlled by a cloud.

[–] WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world 9 points 1 day ago (1 children)

It's still buying proprietary tech from an enemy. It's fucking stupid.

[–] shani66@ani.social 2 points 12 hours ago

Frankly, i think buying military equipment is stupid from the outset. Buy the designs if you really gotta have a third party design, but a government should be the sole hand in all of its most important programs/functions. It's like private healthcare or private infrastructure, it's too important to leave in the hands of a bad economic system.

[–] BackYardIncendiary@lemmy.sdf.org 4 points 22 hours ago

They weren't even solid state!

[–] supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz 9 points 1 day ago

because they have AI!

[–] earphone843@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I feel like Canada has smart enough engineers to fix that issue.

[–] ohulancutash@feddit.uk 24 points 1 day ago (1 children)

It’s a part of the software, which is a classified black box only the US sees into.

[–] BevsDad@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Didn't Israel get access to the code as part of their contract? Kinda wish we had asked for the same thing now...

[–] ohulancutash@feddit.uk 4 points 23 hours ago (1 children)
[–] BevsDad@lemmy.ca 4 points 22 hours ago

Hmm, looks like it's still running the locked US codebase but they were allowed to install their own electronic addons to it.

[–] notsoshaihulud@lemmy.world 10 points 22 hours ago

Time to look into purchasing Swedish National Bonds, 'cause those Grippens will be grippin.

[–] puppinstuff@lemmy.ca 13 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Gripens! You love to see it.

[–] ripcord@lemmy.world 5 points 23 hours ago

I'd love to see if it wasn't "considers".

[–] stardust@lemmy.ca 39 points 1 day ago (1 children)
[–] j4k3@lemmy.world 32 points 1 day ago (1 children)

It is insane that anyone buys F35's with DRM

[–] stardust@lemmy.ca 16 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Need empress to get on this.

[–] LeninsOvaries@lemmy.cafe 6 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

She's probably on Trump's side tbh

[–] shani66@ani.social 2 points 12 hours ago

She's a lunatic, but if you pay her she'll still do it

[–] Teknikal@eviltoast.org 4 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago)

I'd try and join one of the two European projects for a sixth gen fighter the main ones being Bae (Tempest) or Dassault/Airbus (FCAS).

[–] Stealth_Bummer@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Maybe they can get in on BAE Systems Tempest and help to push things forward.

[–] melsaskca@lemmy.ca 2 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

Can the US shut down the planes from afar? Why would Canada submit to this purchase if that is a factor?