this post was submitted on 29 Jul 2023
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Showerthoughts

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A "Showerthought" is a simple term used to describe the thoughts that pop into your head while you're doing everyday things like taking a shower, driving, or just daydreaming. A showerthought should offer a unique perspective on an ordinary part of life.

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[–] RatMaster@sh.itjust.works 76 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'd say it's more like disguised feudalism. We're all peasants for the few kings and queens that have all the money at the top.

[–] Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I don't think people actually agree on the definition of capitalism itself, I just looked it up and was a little surprised how definitive it is:

an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit.

If you asked whether capitalism is a political system, at least in my random polling, 2 out of 9 respondents said No.

[–] foggy@lemmy.world 74 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yes Marx formalized this opinion.

It's the owners of the land and the means of production that control all of the wealth.

[–] nilloc@discuss.tchncs.de 29 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Now it’s the owners of the holding companies who own the owners of all the rest doing the controlling.

[–] Disgusted_Tadpole@lemmy.ml 14 points 1 year ago

Capitalism is now playing 3D chess

[–] milady@lemmy.world 62 points 1 year ago (4 children)
[–] luffyuk@lemmy.world 39 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's hardly a trickle either.

[–] over_clox@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Shit, even at a trickle pace...

If I somehow got one single penny from every person on the planet, I'd have about $80,000,000...

Do you have a penny to spare for the cause?.. 😂

[–] orrk@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

you know what's funny? you still wouldn't be close to the rich rich people

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[–] WorldwideCommunity@lemm.ee 19 points 1 year ago

I caught myself mid laugh before realizing the reality of that statement.

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[–] MrPoopyButthole@lemm.ee 49 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Honestly one of the reasons I fell for a pyramid scheme coming out of high school.

A friend invited me and I went to shit on it and get him out, but the main guy's whole thing was "everything is a pyramid scheme, at least here you have the chance to build a pyramid beneath you."

Obviously there were other reasons as old as time, but the argument of "so what, your 'regular job' is already a pyramid scheme you can't win" was pretty rattling to a teenager in 2011.

[–] hihellobyeoh@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago (4 children)

The difference between a pyramid scheme and a good business is where your money comes from, in a pyramid scheme it comes from the people at the bottom of the pyramid, in a business it comes from selling goods and/or services, that's not saying I agree with big business, but one is profiting off of legitimate customers, the other is profiting off it's own "employees". I nearly got caught into one a few years ago too, until I realized what it was, at that point they had only taken a couple $100 for the interview and sign up stage, i had to block my card for them to never get access again, because even though i didnt complete sign up, thwy kept charging me monthly

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[–] solstice@lemmy.world 42 points 1 year ago (4 children)

It fundamentally is NOT a pyramid scheme. In a pyramid scheme there is no actual product or service of value and simply extracts wealth from the people in lower tiers. Value, or wealth, is simply the byproduct of an equitable transaction between two or more parties.

[–] themeatbridge@lemmy.world 22 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Except that you're describing commerce, not capitalism. Capitalism is the idea that the commerce has value, and that one can own the value of the commercial activity. Further, the value of the business is tied to it's growth.

Further, products and services are never exchanged in an equitable transaction between two parties, because capitalism necessitates a third party, the capitalist. The capitalist must acquire products and services from employees for less than their true value, and then sell them to consumers for more than their true value.

And because capitalism demands growth, one or both of those two margins must continue to expand. This means workers must be pressured to work for less and less, which is why the capitalist opposes social services, universal healthcare, and affordable housing. This also means the capitalism opposes consumer protections, environmental protections, and taxes that provide a functioning society that might interfere with their growth.

Now what happens when every producer and consumer is fighting for the same margins, the same advantages, and the same growth? Then the capitalist seeks new avenues for new capital and new capitalists. Building business on ensuring the growth of business for other capitalists. Selling the idea that you, too, can join us at the top of the pyramid, all the while kicking down ladders they climbed to get there.

So no, the system itself isn't a pyramid scheme. It's just an idea that encourages pyramid schemes because it relies on impossible growth, like a cancer eating away at society.

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[–] bendak@lemmy.world 20 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Transactions are often not equitable, and most wealth bubbles up to the people on the top tiers.

[–] solstice@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Markets are not always fair or efficient but that doesn't mean capitalism is a pyramid scheme. It is still very much the opposite.

[–] KirbyQK@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Unregulated capitalism places all of the power in the hands of the wealthy. Even with the amount of regulation in place, the last 4 decades has irrefutably proven that. The transfer of wealth from the bottom 95% to the top 5% has has been insane.

The only reason we need so much regulation is because people are garbage and if they can gain something for nothing, they will. You cannot consider the pure idea of capitalism without also considering the reality of human nature, that it is inherently going to create a pyramid scheme like situation where the top transfer power and wealth to themselves in the largest quantities they can, in spite of pesky things like laws and taxes.

[–] markr@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Yes that is true, and you can view wealth distribution as pyramid shaped, but that is not what a pyramid scheme means. As noted the system is very good at producing massive amounts of commodities, distributing them all over the planet, and exchanging them for your labor. If capitalism did nothing useful it would have disappeared long ago.

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[–] peto@lemm.ee 41 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If anything this understates the problem.

[–] pachrist@lemmy.world 18 points 1 year ago (5 children)

True, because it's also a giant Ponzi scheme. We pick up new debt today to pay off debt from yesterday, and we hope expanding GDP and inflation will always offset the difference.

[–] mint_tamas@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Is there a difference between a pyramid and a ponzi scheme?

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[–] xzqtlmn@lemmy.world 35 points 1 year ago (1 children)

To be more specific, fractional-reserve banking system creates this giant pyramid scheme, not capitalism per se.

[–] 46_and_2@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Please explain, how exactly is fractional-reserve banking a pyramid scheme?

[–] capr@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago

Because it allows banks to lend out money they don't have and when the banks lobby hard enough to completely remove whats left of the gold standard, the sky's the limit for lending out money. Creating money out of thin air increases inflation. However, in a weird way it impoverishes the lower classes while inriching the elite class because the latter tends to better connected and therefor closer to the "monetary spigot". This allows the elite class to buy up everything(land, companies, lobby/bribe governments)from the top down like a game of pacman.

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[–] nomadjoanne@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago (44 children)

No, it is not. It is brutal in many ways. But that it is not. Neither is socialomswor communism.

Pyramid schemes are zero-sum. I steal and gain, you lose. Capitalism and even communism are not zero-sum games. They are net-positive. They involve people making goods and services for others.

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[–] God_Is_Love@reddthat.com 19 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I would say this about the stock market

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[–] juliebean@lemm.ee 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)

and with a disappointing lack of giant pyramids, no less!

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[–] TowerofPimps@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago (6 children)
[–] Iron_Lynx@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

I've seen several thought experiments about capitalism, and letting it run to its extreme conclusion.

  • Attempt one, with the theoretical best starting conditions, devolved into feudalism
  • Attempt two, which assumed people knew how attempt one ended up and where they wanted to do everything they could to prevent that from happening again, concluded towards theocracy, since capitalism ignores religion, which can become a coercive power structure, separate from capitalism or government.
  • Attempt three, where everyone knew how the previous two experiments went, did away with money, and replaced it with an economy based on service contracts, evolved into communism.
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